WEBVTT 2 00:00:06.748 --> 00:00:07.572 Please, come forward. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. Going 3 00:00:07.572 --> 00:00:13.520 back to justice Paterson's question concerning but I would point out that 4 00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:18.504 the arbitrator's determination that school was closed was not cataloged and certainly 5 00:00:18.504 --> 00:00:26.682 was reasonable the day of the you asked the defending the arbitrator's award 6 00:00:26.682 --> 00:00:31.180 based upon this rationale. I think Mr. Oxfeld alluded to it. I don't know 7 00:00:31.180 --> 00:00:35.566 if he exactly said it but the paint ball case is clear it's the result of the 8 00:00:35.566 --> 00:00:42.381 award not the reasoning that got us there. Which is which has to be -- the result 9 00:00:42.381 --> 00:00:47.196 of that award is custodians who they to go in work during COVID and dangerous 10 00:00:47.196 --> 00:00:52.231 times got extra pay. Did that violate public policy or the law and I would 11 00:00:52.231 --> 00:01:00.782 submit to you that it did not. Alternatively, if we look at the arbitrator's 12 00:01:00.782 --> 00:01:04.306 award based upon where he says could they negotiate for more, could they get 13 00:01:04.306 --> 00:01:11.304 paid more, based on statements supervisors as I talked about before, the statute 14 00:01:11.304 --> 00:01:19.764 did not preempt the right to negotiate for more compensation. 0, we had talked 15 00:01:19.764 --> 00:01:24.409 also about the standard reasonably debatable. What does that mean in this 16 00:01:24.409 --> 00:01:33.060 context? It means at that time arbitrator's award will be upheld or sustained -- 17 00:01:33.060 --> 00:01:36.775 would be confirmed if it's reasonably debatable and that he says true not on 18 00:01:36.775 --> 00:01:42.507 just to the fact. It's true on the law, on public policy and in order to go too 19 00:01:42.507 --> 00:01:48.238 far from that stashed, not be entitled, there has to be a defect conflict and 20 00:01:48.238 --> 00:01:52.419 certainly there is no conflict with this law. Certainly based on the discussion 21 00:01:52.419 --> 00:01:57.575 of what this statute means or dissented mean, but also point out that the I 22 00:01:57.575 --> 00:02:03.885 don't know that the law technically says this but considering the issue is was it 23 00:02:03.885 --> 00:02:07.720 reasonable debatable answer experienced way an arbitrator makes a decision 24 00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:12.438 that this is what this contract means, this is what statute means and the trial 25 00:02:12.438 --> 00:02:17.361 court says chancery division not only does the statute mean this -- I'm sorry not 26 00:02:17.361 --> 00:02:23.275 only was was it reasonably debatable, this is what was correct and whole-heartedly 27 00:02:23.275 --> 00:02:29.966 endorses what the arbitrator did. Got to the Appellate Division and two judges 28 00:02:29.966 --> 00:02:34.961 view it differently. That almost is the essence of reasonably debatable. 29 00:02:34.961 --> 00:02:39.763 If you have four reasonable, legal minds discussing something and two feel it 30 00:02:39.763 --> 00:02:44.358 means this, two feel it means the other thing that certainly sounds like something 31 00:02:44.358 --> 00:02:49.091 that is reasonably debatable at least if they're reasonable people. 32 00:02:49.091 --> 00:02:54.014 JUSTICE PATTERSON: There's no authority for counting judges in that regard is there 33 00:02:54.014 --> 00:02:56.885 really. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: No there's no authority for that. But 34 00:02:56.885 --> 00:03:01.064 just as a matter of common sense, I think if you get a split two two, three 35 00:03:01.064 --> 00:03:06.535 three, that suggests that maybe this isn't a reasonably debatable decision. 36 00:03:06.535 --> 00:03:09.935 JUSTICE PATTERSON: But your adversary if it was three judges on the appellate decision 37 00:03:09.935 --> 00:03:16.108 your adversary said I'm counting through to two majority of the wins. 38 00:03:16.108 --> 00:03:16.998 RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: It's not and winding, you know, we talk about the Appellate 39 00:03:16.998 --> 00:03:21.382 Division and the cases talk about the Appellate Division looking threw but 40 00:03:21.382 --> 00:03:25.undefined that doesn't mean all that much because the standard it is still reasonably 42 00:03:29.936 --> 00:03:34.670 it de novo or give some deference to the chancery division, there's still a 43 00:03:34.670 --> 00:03:39.740 heavy burden that has to be overcome in order to set the award satisfied P 44 00:03:39.740 --> 00:03:42.921 that's even true in this court. It comes back down to whether it's reasonably 45 00:03:42.921 --> 00:03:48.187 debatable. Is. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: Counsel are you limited to class of 46 00:03:48.187 --> 00:03:53.553 employees for whom the phrase and for my time lost would apply to are you also 47 00:03:53.553 --> 00:03:59.048 then limiting the class of employees who can negotiate for additional pay? Because 48 00:03:59.048 --> 00:04:03.306 that phrase then wrap around to the beginning the statute. RICHARD 49 00:04:03.306 --> 00:04:07.048 A. FRIEDMAN: No my actor was not that the statute only applies to certain 50 00:04:07.048 --> 00:04:11.966 employees. I do think that if you're going in the statute doesn't even apply because 51 00:04:11.966 --> 00:04:16.582 it's talking about people who don't go into school. I don't think the statute 52 00:04:16.582 --> 00:04:20.512 is teachers or administrators or quite anybody approximate and it doesn't -- 53 00:04:20.512 --> 00:04:32.018 it doesn't preclude negotiating additional compensation for anybody. JUSTICE 54 00:04:32.018 --> 00:04:34.973 HOFFMAN: Are you arguing that the phrase and for any time lost as a result limits 55 00:04:34.973 --> 00:04:43.668 it is class of people who for whom the phrase as the school facilities remain 56 00:04:43.668 --> 00:04:46.590 open. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: No, I think what that phrase was saying if 57 00:04:46.590 --> 00:04:51.411 anybody could not work because ofly COVID, they would be protected by the statute 58 00:04:51.411 --> 00:04:54.926 and get minimum that the statute requires. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: In addition 59 00:04:54.926 --> 00:04:59.308 to people that can work during. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Yes. JUSTICE 60 00:04:59.308 --> 00:05:02.817 HOFFMAN: And that's everybody. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Everybody wacko chorded 61 00:05:02.817 --> 00:05:06.515 by the stature. There's no suggestion that the statute astatution limited to certain 62 00:05:06.515 --> 00:05:12.863 people nor is there any suggestion that anybody could not negotiate for 63 00:05:12.863 --> 00:05:22.881 compensation. But at this would the likelihood is that teachers would not 64 00:05:22.881 --> 00:05:25.510 coming in in those circumstancesr. JUSTICE WAINER-APTER: But it does again 65 00:05:25.510 --> 00:05:31.450 has say take except that additional compensation benefits andy monthlyments may 66 00:05:31.450 --> 00:05:35.531 be other additional work or forked if you had to but but only if there was additional 67 00:05:35.531 --> 00:05:42.071 work performed. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: That would suckle, yes, you 68 00:05:42.071 --> 00:05:44.922 would but again under state supervisors and all they cases that came after that, 69 00:05:44.922 --> 00:05:51.281 there has to be a prohibition and I would submit that coming in in dangerous Vickers 70 00:05:51.281 --> 00:05:55.573 most of the world was staying home would be tantamount to contrawork. CHIEF 71 00:05:55.573 --> 00:06:02.274 JUSTICE RABNER: In other words, it doesn't say this overrides the existing CNA 72 00:06:02.274 --> 00:06:02.591 had. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: It does not. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: In theory 73 00:06:02.591 --> 00:06:07.409 that last clause means the custodians could come back and say we want even 74 00:06:07.409 --> 00:06:12.695 more and welt we want to negotiate more after because it says additional compensation 75 00:06:12.695 --> 00:06:17.507 benefits and.BY RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Q I don't think the employerpov to negotiate 76 00:06:17.507 --> 00:06:20.156 at that point because they'd have a contract? CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: Corrected. 77 00:06:20.156 --> 00:06:24.410 RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: But if an employer wanted to reopen is negotiate 78 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:28.579 they could but they don't have to. JUSTICE PATTERSON: But but it doesn't 79 00:06:28.579 --> 00:06:36.990 override just and you've clarified your view on that second language. It is 80 00:06:36.990 --> 00:06:44.073 -- the CBA which preceded the statute as I understand your argument overrides, 81 00:06:44.073 --> 00:06:51.870 you know, the CBA said if the school is open, here's what the compensation 82 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:56.579 is and if the school is closed here's the what the the compensation is. It 83 00:06:56.579 --> 00:07:01.845 doesn't it makes that closed versus open very important to the, you know, two and 84 00:07:01.845 --> 00:07:07.248 a half times ratio. And your contention is that public school employees covered 85 00:07:07.248 --> 00:07:12.853 by CNA et cetera, the compensation shall be entitled to compensation benefits 86 00:07:12.853 --> 00:07:17.285 andy monthly you methamphetamines as provided if they collective this goes 87 00:07:17.285 --> 00:07:20.912 agreement as if the school facilities remain open. Now I could see your argument 88 00:07:20.912 --> 00:07:24.207 field goal there wasn't a provision for the school as to what the compensation 89 00:07:24.207 --> 00:07:30.804 is if the schools remain open. But there is one. It -- they're two different 90 00:07:30.804 --> 00:07:38.187 provisions. One for schools closed, one for open. And this says not overriding 91 00:07:38.187 --> 00:07:42.998 your CNA but we're going to the provisions of your CNA245 applies with the 92 00:07:42.998 --> 00:07:46.707 school is open. That's the one that applies in this unique situation that we're 93 00:07:46.707 --> 00:07:51.318 all in. RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Except that you can still negotiate for more 94 00:07:51.318 --> 00:07:57.019 than what than the statute said and actually that's up to the that's all good 95 00:07:57.019 --> 00:08:00.960 and well and upping think that or another judge may think that or some judges 96 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:05.225 but it's up to the arbitrator and the arbitrator made a decision and that decision 97 00:08:05.225 --> 00:08:08.074 was reasonably debatable. JUSTICE PATTERSON: I think everybody agrees 98 00:08:08.074 --> 00:08:15.531 that if there is a direct conflict between a statute and a CNA, then there is -- 99 00:08:15.531 --> 00:08:23.224 there is the statute prevails. I think we talked about that with justice Wehner 100 00:08:23.224 --> 00:08:32.471 aptter's example the legislature setting wages, for example. So but I just 101 00:08:32.471 --> 00:08:37.162 wanted to focus on that because it's not it doesn't purport to override the 102 00:08:37.162 --> 00:08:47.796 CNA. It purports I think arguably to direct -- to direct the school board to the 103 00:08:47.796 --> 00:08:52.294 provision of the CNA that applies if the schools are open. Do you see what 104 00:08:52.294 --> 00:08:57.996 I'm saying? It's not saying forget everything in your CNA. RICHARD A. 105 00:08:57.996 --> 00:09:01.504 FRIEDMAN: It's not a simple case but I think that's an oversimplification because 106 00:09:01.504 --> 00:09:05.780 the reality of the matter is had school was closed. The arbitrator found that school 107 00:09:05.780 --> 00:09:11.592 was closed. And so therefore you have to apply the situation, interpret the 108 00:09:11.592 --> 00:09:15.562 situation as if school were closed which is what the contract said. If schoolion 109 00:09:15.562 --> 00:09:19.805 closed this is what you get. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: Pause there for a 110 00:09:19.805 --> 00:09:24.746 second. You have justice Paterson's not unreasonable question. And you have your 111 00:09:24.746 --> 00:09:31.734 not unreasonable observation by the arbitrator then what happens? 112 00:09:31.734 --> 00:09:33.837 RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: Then that's the answer. You have a reasonable question and 113 00:09:33.837 --> 00:09:39.097 you have a reasonable answer on the other side, the arbitrator has a reasonable 114 00:09:39.097 --> 00:09:44.815 answer, that's what controls is it reasonably debatable. And that was sort 115 00:09:44.815 --> 00:09:49.191 of the point I was trying to make about the trial court -- not trial or the chancery 116 00:09:49.191 --> 00:09:52.473 division and the arbitrator and the Appellate Division. You have a couple 117 00:09:52.473 --> 00:09:58.040 opinions this way, two opinions that way which almost demonstrate on their face 118 00:09:58.040 --> 00:10:02.785 unless they're crazy which nobody was that they're reasonably debatable. 119 00:10:02.785 --> 00:10:05.426 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: Other questions anyone? RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN: I just 120 00:10:05.426 --> 00:10:11.342 have one more thing. I just want to give you the cite I keep I did. To the 121 00:10:11.342 --> 00:10:16.675 robinsville decision two two seven N.J. one nine two at one nine nine page nine 122 00:10:16.675 --> 00:10:22.259 nine and that makes very clear what we're talking about the pay we're really at 123 00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:27.638 the heart the perk at act. The terms are really there. I think I've covered 124 00:10:27.638 --> 00:10:31.732 everything I want if there's any questions,. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: Thank 125 00:10:31.732 --> 00:10:44.152 you. RAMON E. RIVERA: GOOD AFTERNOON. MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT I 126 00:10:44.152 --> 00:10:49.432 AM HERE TODAY ON BEHALF OF THE EGS ORANGE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND BASED ON THE 127 00:10:49.432 --> 00:10:53.671 EARLIER ARGUMENTS I'M GOING TO JUST JUMP RIGHT INTO IT. THE 128 00:10:53.671 --> 00:11:00.109 ARBITRATION DECISION ISSUED BHIE ASH TRATD OR TILL UM RESULTED IN A DECISION THAT 129 00:11:00.109 --> 00:11:06.383 AWARDED COMPENSATION AS IF SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED. WHICH IS DIRECTLY IN 130 00:11:06.383 --> 00:11:11.871 CONTRADICTION TO THE LAW AT THE TIME. THE STATUTE ALBEIT RECENTLY PASSED AROUND 131 00:11:11.871 --> 00:11:17.036 THE TIME THIS ARBITRATION WAS ULTSLY DECIDED WAS IN APRIL OF 2020. BUT 132 00:11:17.036 --> 00:11:22.778 IT'S CLEAR THAT THE TOO MANY AWARD WAS NOT REASONABLY DEBATABLE AS IT WAS KRAR 133 00:11:22.778 --> 00:11:28.050 TO LAW AND THERE IS NUMEROUS CASES THAT SUPPORT THAT FINDING INCLUDING LOCAL 134 00:11:28.050 --> 00:11:36.964 195 AT 169 N.J. 505. WHERE THE COURT VACATED AN AWARD WHICH WAS 135 00:11:36.964 --> 00:11:42.317 CONTRARY. THERE ARE OTHER DECISIONS THAT SUPPORT THIS BUT I THINK IT'S PRIK 136 00:11:42.317 --> 00:11:49.382 THAT THE APPELLATE DIVISION HAS CONSISTENTLY FOUND THAT WARDS THAT ARE NOT 137 00:11:49.382 --> 00:11:54.454 REASONABLY DEBATABLE ARE THEREFORE VACATED. AND HERE WHAT HAPPENED WITH 138 00:11:54.454 --> 00:12:00.494 TROR TILL UM WAS THAT AND THIS WAS CAME OUT EARLIER HE INTERPRETED THE LOR 139 00:12:00.494 --> 00:12:06.750 INCORRECTLY. FIRST OF AURL HE FOUND THAT THE LAW HAD NO CAP ON ADDITIONAL PAY. 140 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:13.199 WHICH K CLEESHLY THE LAW AS INTENDED AT THE TIME WAS IN ESSENCE TO CREATE A STATUS 141 00:12:13.199 --> 00:12:20.969 QUO IN THE MID- THE OF A GLOBAL PANDEMIC THAT CREATED ALL KINDS OF UNCERTAINTY. 142 00:12:20.969 --> 00:12:26.208 AND THAT STATUS QUO WAS NOT ONE-SIDED. THE STATUS QUO WAS BOATS FOR EMPLOYEES 143 00:12:26.208 --> 00:12:30.806 THAT YOU WOULD BE PAID AS IF SCHOOLS WERE OPEN ALL EMPLOYEES WHICH THE LANGUAGE 144 00:12:30.806 --> 00:12:35.036 CLAERLY SUPPORTS BUT ALSO FOR DISTRICTS AND ALL OF OUR PUBLIC EXCUSE ME DISTRICTS 145 00:12:35.036 --> 00:12:39.449 WOULD ALSO BE INSUREDS THAT THEY WERE NOT GOING TO PAY MORE THAN WHAT THEY 146 00:12:39.449 --> 00:12:45.343 BUJED FOR IF SCHOOLS WERE OWN. SO PROVISIONS AND CONTRACTS THAT CALLED FOR ADDITIONAL 147 00:12:45.343 --> 00:12:51.299 STROORD PAY LIKE THE ONE AT ISSUE HERE, WHEN THERE WAS AN EMERGENCY, WOULD 148 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:57.082 ONLY CREATE ADDITIONAL STRESS ON THESE BUJ OATHS BY REQUIRING UNANTICIPATED COSTS. 149 00:12:57.082 --> 00:13:03.088 NOW, THIS LANGUAGE HAD BEEN NOESHTHED YEARS AND YEARS PRIOR 150 00:13:03.088 --> 00:13:07.248 TO PRIMARILY DEAL WITH INCLEMENT WEATHER ISSUES OR BOILER NIBLS OR SOME LOCAL OUT 151 00:13:07.248 --> 00:13:10.964 BREAK THAT NIGHT LAST FOR A SHORT PERT BUT CERTAINLY THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE 152 00:13:10.964 --> 00:13:17.089 WAS NOT CONTEMPLATED TO COVER OVER A YEAR AND A HALF OF BEING UNDER A STATE OF 153 00:13:17.089 --> 00:13:24.027 EMERGENCY. IN ADDITION, THE ARBITRATOR ALSO EXCLUDED OR DIDN'T 154 00:13:24.027 --> 00:13:29.739 UNDERSTAND THE EXCLUSION OF SECTION E WHICH CLEARLY INDICATED SECTION EMENT WOULD BE 155 00:13:29.739 --> 00:13:35.798 CONSTRUED TO PERMIT PREEMPTION OF ANY EXISTING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING 156 00:13:35.798 --> 00:13:41.220 AGREEMENTS. THIS WAS THE ONE SECTION WITHIN THE ENTIRE LAW THAT A LOID FOR THIS 157 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.897 JUST THIS CASE THERE WERE ANY PROVISIONS WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A GREEFR ANSWER OR 158 00:13:44.897 --> 00:13:48.678 SOMETHING. SO WHAT SHOULD THE ASHL TROR HAVE DONE? HE SHUDZ HAVE REVIEWED 159 00:13:48.678 --> 00:13:53.475 THE LAW AS WE PRESENTED IT TO HIM AND ALSO REVIEWED OUR ARGUMENTS AND RIGHT THERE 160 00:13:53.475 --> 00:13:56.891 AT THE DECISION POINT HE SHOULD HAVE RULE I TOO NOT HACHT LEGAL THOISHT 161 00:13:56.891 --> 00:14:03.169 TO ISSUE DPEN SAGS ABOVE WHAT UFSHL PAID ALREADY BASED ON THE DISTRICT BEING OWN. 162 00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:07.797 INSTEAD, HE INSERTED HIS OWN UNREASONABLE INTERPRETATION WHICH WAS THAT 163 00:14:07.797 --> 00:14:14.733 SOMEHOW HIS AUTHORITY EXCEEDED BEYOND THAT OF THE LEGISLATURE, WHERE HE COULD NOT 164 00:14:14.733 --> 00:14:19.118 BE ^ CON ^ CONNECTICUT STRANDZ TO LAWS THAT MIGHT PREEMPT HIS AUTHORITY WHERE 165 00:14:19.118 --> 00:14:24.062 WE SEE THAT ROUTINELY OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR EXAMPLE CHAPTER 78 WHICH PASSED 166 00:14:24.062 --> 00:14:29.164 IN TWN CLEARLY MODZ FILED TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT. THE STATE HEALTH 167 00:14:29.164 --> 00:14:33.416 BENEFIT COMMISSION ROUTINELY WILL PASS CHANGES IN THEIR HEALTH PLANS THAT 168 00:14:33.416 --> 00:14:38.190 THEN CHANGE LOCAL PLANS AND WHAT LOCAL INDIVIDUALS GET CHLTD WE SEE THIS OVER AND 169 00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:42.702 OVER AGAIN. CERTAIN TIMES THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE THE LEGISLATURE WILL 170 00:14:42.702 --> 00:14:48.584 PASS LAWS THAT COULD PREEMPT EXISTING CONTRACTUAL BENEFITS. BUT HERE, THIS WAS 171 00:14:48.584 --> 00:14:55.682 PART OF A WAY TO SAY CANDIDLY HYPOTHETICALLY YOU ARE IN AN OPEN ENVIRONMENT 172 00:14:55.682 --> 00:14:59.912 AND WE WE ALL KNOW AT THE TIME THE SCHOOLS WERE PHYSICALLY CLOSED AND LEGISLATION 173 00:14:59.912 --> 00:15:05.699 STARTS THERE IT STARTS WITH IN THE EVENT OF A CLOSURE OF SCHOOLS IN KOOG 174 00:15:05.699 --> 00:15:10.200 STRICT DEE DIE TO A DECLARED SCOMPLAFZ FLOIJ' DECLARED PUBLIC HENL FLOINL OI REDD REPORT 175 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:15.497 DREBLG FWIET APPROPRIATE HELTD OFFICER HEALTH AGENCY OR OFFICER PUBLIC HEALTH 176 00:15:15.497 --> 00:15:19.821 CLOESHLG YOU ARE FOR A PERIOD LONGER THAN 3 SCHOOL DAYS. SO ONCE YOU ARE PAST 177 00:15:19.821 --> 00:15:23.685 3 SCHOOL DAYS YOU'RE OPERATING IN A PHYSICAL CLOSURE BUT THEN THE 178 00:15:23.685 --> 00:15:29.693 REMAINDER OF THE LANGUAGE KICKS IN. THAT LANGUAGE THEN ALLOWS THE DISTRICT TO OPERATE 179 00:15:29.693 --> 00:15:35.099 AS IF IT'S OPEN ONLY FOR COMPENSATION PURPOSES. AND WHAT DID THAT MEAN? THAT 180 00:15:35.099 --> 00:15:38.814 MEENT THAT WE EXAMINED TO PAY REGULAR SAIL LEASE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHETHER 181 00:15:38.814 --> 00:15:43.738 THEY CAME TO WORK, THEY TAUT REMOTELY, OR IN SOME INSTANCES THEY CONSTITUTIONAL 182 00:15:43.738 --> 00:15:48.763 COME TO WORK TO FERM THEIR FURNGSS BAY THEY WERE A COPE OF A SPRING TRACK 183 00:15:48.763 --> 00:15:53.482 TEAM AND THERE WERE NO TRACK MEETS BUT THEY STILL RECEIVED THEIR COMPENSATION 184 00:15:53.482 --> 00:15:58.128 BECAUSE WE HAD TO TREAT THEM AND THE ENTIRE DISTRICT AS IF IT WAS OPEN AND 185 00:15:58.128 --> 00:16:02.192 THOSE TRACK NEETS THOSE GAMES WERE HAPPENING EVEN THOUGH IN REALITY THEY WEREN'T. 186 00:16:02.192 --> 00:16:07.859 I ARGIROPOULOS THAT THAT'S THE PURPOSE BEHIND THE LANGUAGE THAT MY ADVERSARY 187 00:16:07.859 --> 00:16:14.132 MR. OXFELD ARGUED FOR THAT BEGINS WITH AND AND FOR ANY TIME LOSS AS A RESULT OF 188 00:16:14.132 --> 00:16:18.682 SCHOOL CLOSURES OR THE USE OF VIRTUAL OR REMOTE INSTRUCTION. THAT LANGUAGE 189 00:16:18.682 --> 00:16:22.474 IS DEL WITH ADDITIONAL CATEGORIES OF INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PERFORM 190 00:16:22.474 --> 00:16:26.528 BECAUSE OF THE CLOSURE. THAT DID NOT APPLY TO CUSTODY YENS. CUSTODY YENS 191 00:16:26.528 --> 00:16:31.850 LIKE EVERY OTHER GROUN MAINTENANCE SECURITY ANY OTHER FOLKS THAT WNTS INVOLVED 192 00:16:31.850 --> 00:16:35.196 IN INSTRUCTION WERE STILL COVERED BY THE BEGINNING PROVISION THAT TALKED 193 00:16:35.196 --> 00:16:44.047 ABOUT PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES. CONTINUING ON AS ARGUED IN OUR BRIEF 194 00:16:44.047 --> 00:16:48.916 WE ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF REASONABLY DEBATABLE AND I ARGIROPOULOS THAT THE 195 00:16:48.916 --> 00:16:53.327 PATS PAT CAN I ASK YOU WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE LANGUAGE XOEMENT THAT 196 00:16:53.327 --> 00:16:57.736 ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION BENEFITS AND METHODOLOGY MENTS MAYBE NOESHTHED FOR 197 00:16:57.736 --> 00:17:02.209 ADDITIONAL WORK PERFORMED. RIMMA RAZHBA: SFLOO SO I WILL GIVE YOU 198 00:17:02.209 --> 00:17:04.367 AN COMBAJ NEM THIS NJAA I ALSO TRATD #I9 WE SNAF A CUSTODIAN OR MAINTENANCE 199 00:17:04.367 --> 00:17:10.425 EMPLOYEE WHO HAS A REGULAR SKELD THEY NJAA ALSO SERVE AS A LUNCH AID THEY MAY 200 00:17:10.425 --> 00:17:15.669 SERVE AS A COACH AFTER SCHOOL, THEY MAY SERVE IN ADDITIONAL SERVICE. IF 201 00:17:15.669 --> 00:17:19.957 WE NEED THEM TO PERFORM ANYTHING ELSE LIKE HANDING OUT SCHOOL LUNCHES, WHICH WAS 202 00:17:19.957 --> 00:17:24.959 A BIG THING THAT WE DID, THEY COULD NOESHTH ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION FOR THAT EXTRA 203 00:17:24.959 --> 00:17:27.670 WORK PERFORMED. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: IT DOESN'T OVERRIDE OSH 204 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:32.356 IN ANY WAY COMPLAINING THE CNA THAT INCLUDES IT JUST SAYS FOR EXTRA RESPONSIBILITIES 205 00:17:32.356 --> 00:17:35.042 YOU CAN NOESHTHS EXTRA PAY IS THAT FAIR. RAMON E. RIVERA: 206 00:17:35.042 --> 00:17:39.962 ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE THE PRECEDESING PARAGRAPH LIMITED UGS A DISTRICT TO ONLY 207 00:17:39.962 --> 00:17:42.615 PAY AGS IF WE WHEN WERE OPEN. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: LET'S GO BACK 208 00:17:42.615 --> 00:17:51.078 TO THAT ARGUMENT. WE HAVE A CNA THAT SAYS IF SCHOOLS ARE CLOSED FOR AN 209 00:17:51.078 --> 00:17:56.065 NOIJ SEE, CUSTODY YENS WHO ARE WORK ARE ENTITLED TO ONE AND A HALF TIMES PAY IN 210 00:17:56.065 --> 00:18:00.900 ADDITION TO THEIR REGULAR PAY UNDER THE CNA. TURN TO THE STATUTE AGAIN AND 211 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:07.891 TELL US WHAT LANGUAGE CLEARLY AND SPLESLY OVERRIDES THAT NOESHTHED RIGHT? 212 00:18:07.891 --> 00:18:14.062 RAMON E. RIVERA: THE LANGUAGE THAT READS AS FOLLOWS: AND INL JUGS GLOWING 213 00:18:14.062 --> 00:18:19.815 TO SAY AS PROVIDED IN THE COLLECTIVE NOESHGSS AS IF SCHOOLS REMANDZ OPEN. 214 00:18:19.815 --> 00:18:23.836 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: SO THAT DOESN'T SAY, AND THE LEGISLATURE COULD 215 00:18:23.836 --> 00:18:31.485 HAVE SAID, WE MEAN TO OVERRIDE COLLECT TIFL NOESHTHED AGREEMENTS IN THE 216 00:18:31.485 --> 00:18:35.241 COURSE -- THROUGH THAT STATEMENT. IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY USE PLAIN LANGUAGE TO THAT 217 00:18:35.241 --> 00:18:38.540 EFFECT, DOES IT. RAMON E. RIVERA: I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE 218 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:42.649 JUSTICE. IN THE BEGINNING SENTENCE IT READS NOTHING IN SUBSECTION B DRFRMENT OR 219 00:18:42.649 --> 00:18:46.027 D OF THIS SESHGS SHALL BE ^ CON ^ CONNECTICUT STRUDZ TO LINLT SUP VIED OR 220 00:18:46.027 --> 00:18:49.774 PREEMTH RIGHTS PRIVILEGES COMPENSATION REMEDIES AND PROCEDURES AFFORDED TO 221 00:18:49.774 --> 00:18:54.400 PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HOWEVER EFRMENT IS NOT LISTED THE LETHD YOU ARE COULD HAVE 222 00:18:54.400 --> 00:19:01.172 EASILY JUST LISTED E OR MADE NO MENTION AT ALL AND THEN THERE MAYBE AN ARGUED 223 00:19:01.172 --> 00:19:05.132 THERE BUT THE FAK THAT IT WAS SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED MEANS THAT IT WOULD CLEARLY 224 00:19:05.132 --> 00:19:09.417 OVERRIDE, PREEMTH, SUPERSEDES ANY COLLECTIVE PARAGRAPH EVENING AGREEMENT. 225 00:19:09.417 --> 00:19:12.687 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: SO BY LEAVING OUT WORDS IT HAS SOMEHOW 226 00:19:12.687 --> 00:19:17.367 CLEARLY OVER RIDDEN A CHECK TIFL NOESHTHED AGREEMENT? RAMON E. 227 00:19:17.367 --> 00:19:20.187 RIVERA: I THINK YOU READ IT IN THE CONTEXT ALSO OF THE BEGINNING SECTION WHICH 228 00:19:20.187 --> 00:19:24.121 TALKS ABOUT ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS EMPLOYEES ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL OEM MRES AND 229 00:19:24.121 --> 00:19:28.752 THEN GOES ON FURTHER AS I STATED EARLIER THAT WE ARE TO PAY THEN AS IF THE DIG 230 00:19:28.752 --> 00:19:33.462 TRIKT WAS OPEN AND THIS WAS A PROVISION THAT ONLY APPLIED IF THE DISTRICT 231 00:19:33.462 --> 00:19:40.794 WAS CLOSED. SO IT WAS DIRECTLY ON POINT TO THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE THAT REQUIRED US 232 00:19:40.794 --> 00:19:44.955 LEGALLY IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH THE STATUTE TO TREAT THESE EMPLOYEES AS IF 233 00:19:44.955 --> 00:19:48.266 THE DISTRICT WAS OPEN. JUSTICE PATTERSON: AND TAEGS YOU BACK TO 234 00:19:48.266 --> 00:19:52.766 THE PROVISION OF THE C B A DOES IT NOT FOR WHEN THE SCHOOLS ARE OECH. 235 00:19:52.766 --> 00:19:54.004 RAMON E. RIVERA: CORRECT. JUSTICE PATTERSON: IT DOESN'T 236 00:19:54.004 --> 00:20:00.247 KANGS WILL OUT THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE C B A BUR IT DIRECT THE SCHOOL BOARD 237 00:20:00.247 --> 00:20:06.773 TO GO TO THE PROVISION OF THE C B A THAT APPLIES WHEN THE SCHOOLS ARE OPEN AS OPPOSED 238 00:20:06.773 --> 00:20:10.124 TO THE ONES THAT WOULD APPLY IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THE SCHOOLS ARE 239 00:20:10.124 --> 00:20:12.784 CLOSED. RAMON E. RIVERA: I AGREE. AND IT WOULD ALSO HAVE 240 00:20:12.784 --> 00:20:20.007 CREATED ADDITIONAL POTENTIAL CHAOS AROUND COMPENSATION IF WE WOULD OF BEEN ABLE 241 00:20:20.007 --> 00:20:23.948 TO PICK AND CHOOSE ON WHERE WE ARE GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT'S OPEN OR WHAT'S 242 00:20:23.948 --> 00:20:28.536 CLOSED SO WE TREATED ALL SITUATIONS AS IF WE'RE OPEN EVEN WHERE AS I MENTIONED 243 00:20:28.536 --> 00:20:33.484 EARLIER SOMEONE MAY NOT HAVE ACTUALLY PERFORMED A TAVENG WE WOULD HAVE HAD 244 00:20:33.484 --> 00:20:37.281 TO GO BACK IN AND SAY WELL DOES THAT CHANGE HOW WE TREAT YOUR INSTRUCTION DOES 245 00:20:37.281 --> 00:20:41.900 THAT CHANGE HOW WE TREAT WITH COACH EAST NO IT WAS SIMPLE AND SEES E FOR DIGS 246 00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:45.585 TRICK TO JUST TREATS IT AS FLE DID THE PRIOR YEAR. JUSTICE 247 00:20:45.585 --> 00:20:47.891 WAINER APTER: ASK YOU EXPLAIN THAT A BIT MORE THAT WAS YOUR SPLAJTS OF THE WORDS 248 00:20:47.891 --> 00:20:51.139 FO ARE IN I TIME LOST AS A RULE OF SCHOOL CLOSURES OR USE OF VIRTUAL OR 249 00:20:51.139 --> 00:20:55.006 REMOTE INSTRUCTION RIGHT? SO DOES THAT MEAN WE ARE THERE COACHES WHO WERE PAID 250 00:20:55.006 --> 00:20:59.394 BITES TRACK MEET OR BY THE GAME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND SO THE MEANING 251 00:20:59.394 --> 00:21:03.929 OF THIS WAS EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE NO TRACK MEETS AND THERE ARE NO GAMES YOU STILL 252 00:21:03.929 --> 00:21:08.878 HAVE TO PAY THE COACH FOR THE NUMBER OF TRASHG NEETS OR GAMES THAT THERE WERE 253 00:21:08.878 --> 00:21:10.486 LAST YEAR. RAMON E. RIVERA: THERE SEFRNL MAY HAVE BEEN PER 254 00:21:10.486 --> 00:21:15.871 DEE EM INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE PAID FOR SPECIFIC WORK PERFORMED ON AN IS LALTED BASIS 255 00:21:15.871 --> 00:21:21.240 BUT TYPICALLY COACHES ARE PAID BY A SEMESTER OR UNION COUNTY FOR A PERT. 256 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.002 AND I DO RECALL AT THE TIME THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT DO WE STILL HAVE TO PAY 257 00:21:26.002 --> 00:21:30.168 THESE COACHES WE ARE NO LONGER HAVING ANY GAMES AND BASED MONDAY THE LAW THAT 258 00:21:30.168 --> 00:21:34.494 WE WERE TO TREAT THEM AS IF IT WAS OPEN WE PAID ALL OF THEM. AND SO TO ANSWER 259 00:21:34.494 --> 00:21:38.329 YOUR QUESTION NO NOT ALL OF THEM THE SOME OF THEM WERE PADZ IN ADDITION TO THEIR 260 00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:43.752 REGULAR PAY BY A STIEN END, OF A NEW THOUSAND DOLLARS AND THAT CAME IN WAS 261 00:21:43.752 --> 00:21:49.023 ROLLED INTO YOUR PAY BECAUSE THIS ACTION WASN'T PERFORMED THE ISSUE WAS WELL WHAT 262 00:21:49.023 --> 00:21:52.695 DO DO YOU WITH IT? WELL THIS TALKS ABOUT TIME LOST AS A RESULT OF SCHOOL 263 00:21:52.695 --> 00:21:56.059 CLOSURES WHICH I BELIEVED WAS TRELG ON POINT FOR THAT ISSUE. 264 00:21:56.059 --> 00:21:58.800 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS. BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE A REEB 265 00:21:58.800 --> 00:22:06.733 ARGUMENT WHEN YOU SAY PAY AS IF SCHOOLS ARE OWN MEANS EVEN IF THEY'RE CLOSE 266 00:22:06.733 --> 00:22:12.986 DZ YOU ARE STILL GOING TO GET PAID. AND THAT'S LET'S CALLING THAT ARGUMENT ONE. 267 00:22:12.986 --> 00:22:20.150 ARGUMENT TWO IS WE HAVE A CNA THAT SAYS WHAT 20 DO WHEN SCHOOLS ARE CLOSED, 268 00:22:20.150 --> 00:22:27.974 THESE SCHOOLS WERE IN FACT CLOSED AS THE ARBITRATOR FOUND. NOWHERE DOES IT SAY 269 00:22:27.974 --> 00:22:37.740 AND WE'RE SELTSING ASIDE CNAS IT IS JUST NOT IN THE LANGUAGE THERE. WHY 270 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:43.789 ARNLTS THEY BOTH REASONABLE ARGUMENTS IN WHICH CASE THE REASONABLE DEE FWAT ABL 271 00:22:43.789 --> 00:22:48.099 STANDARD WOULD CONTROL AND DECIDE THE OUTCOME HERE? RAMON E. 272 00:22:48.099 --> 00:22:53.353 RIVERA: I THINK YOU CAN MAKE THAT ARGUMENT AS YOU APPLY IT TO THE ARBITRATOR'S 273 00:22:53.353 --> 00:22:57.784 DECISION IF HE WOULD HAVE MADE THAT ARGUMENT BUT HE DOES NOT MAKE THAT 274 00:22:57.784 --> 00:23:00.760 ARGUMENT IFRMENT DIDN'T HE SAY THESE SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED? 275 00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:06.124 RAMON E. RIVERA: HE HIS ISSUE WAS THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD CLOSED WHICH HE LIKE 276 00:23:06.124 --> 00:23:10.615 END TO GOING TO COST COMPANY AND BEING CLOSED. HE DID NOT ADDRESS THE ISSUE 277 00:23:10.615 --> 00:23:19.790 AT ALL OF WHAT YOU JUST ARTICULATED, THAT THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD HAVE SPECIFICALLY 278 00:23:19.790 --> 00:23:24.139 REFERENCED SCHOOL CLOSURE IN THIS STATUTE. HIS ONLY COMMENT IN THE ONE 279 00:23:24.139 --> 00:23:30.165 PARAGRAPH ONE SENTENCE WAS THAT HE QUESTIONS THE LEGAL AUTHORITY FOR HIS ABLTD 280 00:23:30.165 --> 00:23:34.470 TO ISSUE AN AWARD TO BE PREEMENTED BY THE LEGISLATURE. HE DIDN'T BEFORE 281 00:23:34.470 --> 00:23:37.569 INC. THAT UNAND I THINK IT'S CRITICAL IF WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT WHETHER IT WAS 282 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:42.228 REASONABLY DEBATABLE AS TO WHAT HIS ANALYSIS IS SHLGS NOT WHAT MAY HAVE COME UP 283 00:23:42.228 --> 00:23:46.739 THROUGH LEGAL ARGUMENT BY COUNSEL BUT NOT BUT HE NEVER BROUGHT THAT UP SO 284 00:23:46.739 --> 00:23:52.974 WHEN WE WERE LOOKING TO SEEK TO VAK OR MODIFY THE AWARD THAT WAS NOT AT ISSUE. 285 00:23:52.974 --> 00:23:54.729 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: DON'T YOU ALSO JUST GO BACK TO THE 286 00:23:54.729 --> 00:23:58.009 FIRST SENTENCE WHICH WE NEFR READ THE ENDS V IT WHICH IS NOTHING IN SUBSECTION 287 00:23:58.009 --> 00:24:02.180 B C OR D OF THIS SESHGS SHG BE CONDITION TRUD TO SUNER SEED OR PREEMPT ANY 288 00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:06.272 PROVISION OF A COLLECTIVE BARK EVENING AGREEMENT ENTERED INTO BY THE SCHOOL 289 00:24:06.272 --> 00:24:10.489 DIFFICULTIES TRIBLTH, I.E. ANY PROVISION OF A COLLECTIVE BARRING OWNING AGREEMENT 290 00:24:10.489 --> 00:24:17.223 ENTERED INTO BY THE SCHOOL TIS TRIKT IS PREEMPTED OR SUNER SEEDED BY SUBSECTION 291 00:24:17.223 --> 00:24:20.777 E WHERE THERE IS A CONFLICT. RAMON E. RIVERA: I AGREE. 292 00:24:20.777 --> 00:24:26.747 I BELIEVE IT'S A BUJD ANDLY CLEAR BY THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES: WHICH CLEARLY 293 00:24:26.747 --> 00:24:32.248 MAY HAVE AN IMPACT ON LANGUAGE IN THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT. 294 00:24:32.248 --> 00:24:35.197 DOUGLAS M. FASCIALE: NORNL ORDZ NAR LIE BE REVIEW ORDERS AND JUDGMENTS 295 00:24:35.197 --> 00:24:41.403 NOT THE DECISIONS UNDERLYING THE ISSUANCE OF THE ORDER OR THE JUDGMENT. IN THE 296 00:24:41.403 --> 00:24:49.028 CONTEXT OF AN ARBITRATION INVOLVING A PUBLIC SECTOR DISPUTE, WE VOOUF THE ARBITRATOR'S 297 00:24:49.028 --> 00:24:54.004 AWARD MEANING THE ISSUE WANLS V A DOLLAR AMOUNT JUST LIKE WE WOULD OF REVIEWED 298 00:24:54.004 --> 00:24:59.989 AN ORDER OR A JUDGMENT RATHER THAN A DECISION AND IN THIS CASE THE ARBITRATOR'S 299 00:24:59.989 --> 00:25:03.649 REASONING. RAMON E. RIVERA: RESPECTFULLY I DISAGREE. YOU HAD 300 00:25:03.649 --> 00:25:08.642 EEZ HAVE TO LOOK AT THE REASONING THAT THE ARBITRATOR USED TO JUST FIGHT DECISION 301 00:25:08.642 --> 00:25:12.449 BECAUSE THE DECISION MAY JUST SIMPLY BE A DOLLAR AMOUNT. AND IN THE ABSTRACT 302 00:25:12.449 --> 00:25:17.590 REVIEWING WHETHER THAT AMOUNT IS REASONABLE DOESN'T PROVIDE ^ CON ^ 303 00:25:17.590 --> 00:25:20.706 CONNECTICUT TECH FOR YOU TO FORM AN OPINION UNDER THE CASE LAW AS TO WHETHER IT'S 304 00:25:20.706 --> 00:25:25.423 REASONABLY DEBATABLE. AND WE COME BACK TO UNION COUNTY THE CASE LAW THAT REPEATEDLY 305 00:25:25.423 --> 00:25:31.424 OVER AND OVER AN ARBITRATION DECISION THAT'S CONTRARY TO LAW IS EQUAL TO 306 00:25:31.424 --> 00:25:37.838 UNREASONABLE AND NOT DEBATABLE RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. THIS ARBITRATION AWARD 307 00:25:37.838 --> 00:25:43.621 IS CONTRARY TO LAW BECAUSE HE COULDN'T INCLUDEDED 3 THINGS: ONE, THERE WAS NO 308 00:25:43.621 --> 00:25:48.526 CAP IN THIS THERE CLEARLY IS A LIMITATION AND CAP ON THE PLAIN READING OF 309 00:25:48.526 --> 00:25:52.857 IT. YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO GET WHAT YOU WOULD GET IF THE DISTRICT WAS OPEN NO MORE 310 00:25:52.857 --> 00:25:57.616 NO LESS. SO THAT WAS UNREASONABLE. NUMBER TWO, HE COULDN'T INCLUDEDED 311 00:25:57.616 --> 00:26:03.440 THAT HE DIDN'T BELIEVE OR HE WASN'T SURE IF HE COULD BE PREEMENTED BY THE LEGISLATURE. 312 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:08.503 THAT'S CLEARLY INCORRECT UNDER THE LAW. HE ABSOLUTELY CAN BE AS WELL AS ANY 313 00:26:08.503 --> 00:26:15.165 OTHER ENTITY LEGISLATURE PUTS OUT LAUSZ IT MAY I AM FAK YOUR ABLTS TO WORK THOSE 314 00:26:15.165 --> 00:26:17.707 ARE TWO GLISHS FLISHLS WHERE HE WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. CHIEF 315 00:26:17.707 --> 00:26:21.539 JUSTICE RABNER: WHERE IS THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU HAVE ARGUED TWICE NOW YOU ARE ONLY 316 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:27.030 GOING TO GETS WHERE IS THAT FOUND IN THE STATUTE? RAMON E. 317 00:26:27.030 --> 00:26:33.982 RIVERA: SO I GO BACK TO THE SENTENCE WHICH HAS OPEN ENDS WHICH CLEARLY STATES 318 00:26:33.982 --> 00:26:41.069 THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES COVERED BY A CHECK TIF NOESHGSS AGREEMENT SHALL 319 00:26:41.069 --> 00:26:49.070 BE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION BENEFITS AND METHODOLOGY MENTS AS PROVIDED IN THE CNA 320 00:26:49.070 --> 00:26:52.255 AS IF SCHOOL FACILITIES REMAINED OPEN. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: 321 00:26:52.255 --> 00:26:56.192 SO PAUSE FOR A SECOND THERE AS YOU DID. THAT MEANS YOU ARE GOING TO GET 322 00:26:56.192 --> 00:26:57.944 PAID. RAMON E. RIVERA: YES. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: 323 00:26:57.944 --> 00:27:01.513 WHERE DOES THAT SAY YOU'RE ON GOING TO GET PAID THAT. RAMON E. 324 00:27:01.513 --> 00:27:07.777 RIVERA: THEN WE CONTINUE. I AM JUSZ GOING TO READ IT ALL. FOR ANY PURPOSE AND 325 00:27:07.777 --> 00:27:11.871 FOR ANY TIME LOST AS A RULE OF SCHOOL CLOSURES AND USE OF VIRTUAL 326 00:27:11.871 --> 00:27:19.620 INSTRUCTION. NOTHING THERE. COME MA EXCEPT THAT ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION DIRECTLY 327 00:27:19.620 --> 00:27:24.147 IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION, ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION BENEFITS AND METHODOLOGY 328 00:27:24.147 --> 00:27:30.932 MEANTS MAYBE NOESHTHED FOR ONLY ONE THING, ADDITIONAL WORK PERFORMED. 329 00:27:30.932 --> 00:27:36.020 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: SO IF A CUSTODIAN UNDER THAT PROVISION WERE TASKED WITH 330 00:27:36.020 --> 00:27:40.373 I AM GOING TO MAKE THIS UP YOU CAN TELL MOO E IF IT IS A BADZ EXAMPLE, 331 00:27:40.373 --> 00:27:45.434 REPAINING THE ENTIRE SCHOOL, OR TARING THE FURNACE, SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ORDINARILY 332 00:27:45.434 --> 00:27:49.969 ENCOMPASSED IN THE CUSTODIAN'S RESPONSIBILITIES, THE PLAIN LANGUAGE 333 00:27:49.969 --> 00:27:52.940 SAYS YOU CAN NOESHG FOR MORE MONEY FOR THAT ADDITIONAL WORK. 334 00:27:52.940 --> 00:27:55.340 RAMON E. RIVERA: SURE IN THE FUTURE. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THIS 335 00:27:55.340 --> 00:28:01.086 IS DIFFERENT THOUGH. THIS IS A CUSTODIAN PERFORMING THE SAME WORK HE WAS 336 00:28:01.086 --> 00:28:06.300 PEFRNLING WEEKS BEFORE COVID 19 HIT AND SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED. NO. 337 00:28:06.300 --> 00:28:08.476 RAMON E. RIVERA: YEAH. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: SO THIS LANGUAGE AS 338 00:28:08.476 --> 00:28:15.489 YOU READ IT CLEARLY COVERS ANYTHING THAT THE CUSTODIAN IS DOING THEY CAN 339 00:28:15.489 --> 00:28:20.889 NOESHTH BUT ALL BETS ARE OFFER WITH REGARD TO THE CONTRACT THAT THEDZ BEFORE. 340 00:28:20.889 --> 00:28:23.059 YOU READ THAT INTO THE LANGUAGE HERE. RAMON E. RIVERA: CORRECT 341 00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:30.901 I READ IT AS SDMRIETS THIS ENTIRE PARAGRAPH IMPACTS THE PARAGRAPH IN THE 342 00:28:30.901 --> 00:28:37.423 CONTRACT THAT TALKS ABOUT TWO AND A HALF TIMES FOR PERIODS WHEN TS SCHOOL IS CLOSED 343 00:28:37.423 --> 00:28:41.846 I AM GOING TO FAR PHRASE #I9 IFRM SO TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER THE ARBITRATOR 344 00:28:41.846 --> 00:28:45.869 SAYS IF WEARING TG LOOK AT THIS LANGUAGE THIS ISN'T CLEAR TO ME. 345 00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:50.245 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THE ARBITRATOR READS THIS LANGUAGE AND KOMGS A WAY DETERMINE 346 00:28:50.245 --> 00:28:55.725 ING IN HIS JUDGMENT THAT THIS IS NOT THE CLEAREST OF STAUTS. I'LL ASK YOU 347 00:28:55.725 --> 00:28:59.413 DO YOU THINK IT IS THE CLEAREST OF STAUTS? RAMON E. RIVERA: WELL, 348 00:28:59.413 --> 00:29:03.339 I ONLY HAVE ONE ANSWER YES ABSOLUTELY ONE HUNDRED PUBLIC EMPLOYMENT RETIREMENT 349 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:11.692 SYSTEM BECAUSE IT SPEAKS ABOUT TREATING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AS IF IT'S OPEN. IT'S 350 00:29:11.692 --> 00:29:17.758 ONE PARAGRAPH. I KNOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. CHIEF 351 00:29:17.758 --> 00:29:22.038 JUSTICE RABNER: AND ANY OTHER TOIVEN TAGS IS COMPLETELY WRONG. 352 00:29:22.038 --> 00:29:25.235 RAMON E. RIVERA: I WOULD ARGIROPOULOS YES ANY OTHER INTERPRETATION IS UNREASONABLE. 353 00:29:25.235 --> 00:29:26.550 JUSTICE PATTERSON: JUST TO BE CLEAR ABOUT YOUR POSITION. 354 00:29:26.550 --> 00:29:30.784 YOU ARE NOT TAKING THE POSITION THAT ALL BETS ARE OFF UNDER THE CNA ARE YOU UNDER 355 00:29:30.784 --> 00:29:33.490 THE STATUTE. RAMON E. RIVERA: WITH RESPECT TO WHAT ISSUE. 356 00:29:33.490 --> 00:29:35.292 JUSTICE PATTERSON: YOU ARE NOT THROWING OUT THE CNA YOU'RE 357 00:29:35.292 --> 00:29:40.469 POSITION IS THAT IT SENDS YOU TO A DIFFERENT PROVISION OF THE CNA. 358 00:29:40.469 --> 00:29:43.846 RAMON E. RIVERA: CORRECT THE CNA IS NOT INVALIDATED. ONE SPECIFIC PROVISION 359 00:29:43.846 --> 00:29:49.024 #69D CNA DOESN'T APPLY DURING THE PERIOD OF TIEMENT WITH E WE ARE CLOSED FOR 360 00:29:49.024 --> 00:29:52.573 MORE THAN 3 DAYS DUE TO A PUBLIC HELL EMERGENCY NISHLDZ BY THE STATE THAT'S IT. 361 00:29:52.573 --> 00:29:57.128 245 ONE PROVISION. THAT MAYBE IN OURS THAT MAYBE IN 566 OTHER SCHOOLING 362 00:29:57.128 --> 00:30:00.987 DISTRICTS THAT HAVE THAT SIMILAR PROVISION BUT THAT DOESN'T APPLY BECAUSE THE LETHD 363 00:30:00.987 --> 00:30:04.395 YOU ARE SAID SO. JUSTICE PATTERSON: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU 364 00:30:04.395 --> 00:30:07.920 HAS THIS COME UP AS FAR AS YOU KNOW IN OER DISTRICT BECAUSE IT SEEMGS TO ME IF 365 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.521 THE CNA IS SIMILAR IN OTHER PLACES, THAT YOU WOULD SFEK THERE TO BE A DISPUTE I 366 00:30:13.521 --> 00:30:14.991 DON'T KNOW. RAMON E. RIVERA: THERE WERE OTHER DISTRICTS 367 00:30:14.991 --> 00:30:19.511 THAT DEALT WITH THE ISSUE. TWEER' ONLY REPRESENTING THIS ONE IN THIS CONTEXT. 368 00:30:19.511 --> 00:30:24.623 BUT I DID NOT FIND IT TO BE WIDESPREAD. THERE WERE PARTICULAR CONTRACTS 369 00:30:24.623 --> 00:30:29.560 THAT HAD LANGUAGE LIKE THIS THAT WE ALL UNDERSTOOD COLLOQUIALLY TO JUST ADDRESS 370 00:30:29.560 --> 00:30:32.638 INCLEMENT WEATHER ISSUES. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: WHEN YOU 371 00:30:32.638 --> 00:30:36.637 BEGIN YOUR ARGUMENT YOU MENTIONED THE LEGISLATURE CHANGING HEALTH PLANS 372 00:30:36.637 --> 00:30:43.482 AND THEREFORE CHANGING LANGUAGE IN EXISTING CNAS HOW DID THE LEGISLATURE DOES THE 373 00:30:43.482 --> 00:30:46.288 LEGISLATURE ORDZ NAR HE DO THAT. RAMON E. RIVERA: SO, THE 374 00:30:46.288 --> 00:30:54.194 LEGISLATURE WHEN CHAPTER 78 WAS PASSED IN 2011 REQUIRED COMPLIANCE OVER A 375 00:30:54.194 --> 00:30:56.493 FACED IN PERIODS OF TIME. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: WHAT LANGUAGE DOES 376 00:30:56.493 --> 00:31:01.232 IT USE THAT MAKES CLEAR WHAT IS HANG? CAN YOU CITE. RAMON E. 377 00:31:01.232 --> 00:31:05.471 RIVERA: I POLG JIES I DON'T HAVE THAT LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF ME I JUST HAVE AN 378 00:31:05.471 --> 00:31:06.892 UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE LAW REQUIRED. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: 379 00:31:06.892 --> 00:31:12.280 IS IT MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT A SPECIFIC LESS SPECIFIC NL THE LANGUAGE IN SECTION. 380 00:31:12.280 --> 00:31:14.373 RAMON E. RIVERA: I THITSZ AS SPECIFIC AS THIS LANGUAGE BUT 381 00:31:14.373 --> 00:31:19.729 THAT SNOTS A FAIR XAN SON. THIS IS IN MY OPINION A VERY SIMPLE PROVISION CONTAINED 382 00:31:19.729 --> 00:31:26.094 WITHIN UNION COUNTY THIS SECTION OF THE LAW COMPARED TO CHAPTER 78 OR WITH 383 00:31:26.094 --> 00:31:30.857 THE CONTEXT OF THE I THINK IT'S THE SHEER RIN CASE WHICH DEALT WITH THE SEEN 384 00:31:30.857 --> 00:31:34.717 PENNSYLVANIA CLAIM AND THE IN VALIDATION THAT WAS A VERY COMPLEX LAW SO WAS 385 00:31:34.717 --> 00:31:39.421 CHAPTER 78 THERE WERE NUMEROUS ITERATIONS BEFORE TLE THERE WERE OTHER A MREMENTS 386 00:31:39.421 --> 00:31:44.478 IN 2007 TO ADDRESS AND I THINK THAT THE LANGUAGE MAYBE DIFFERENT. I THINK ON 387 00:31:44.478 --> 00:31:50.783 ITS FACE THIS HAS TO BE LOOKED AT IN SOMEWHAT V AN ISOLATION, THAT THIS ONE 388 00:31:50.783 --> 00:31:57.402 PARAGRAPH REPRESENTS A VERY SIMPLE STRAIGHTFORWARD WAY TO DEAL WITH DPEN SAGS 389 00:31:57.402 --> 00:32:01.328 DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME AND IF YOU WITH US JER TO TURN TO A DIFFERENT 390 00:32:01.328 --> 00:32:08.044 SECTION SECTION 3 OF THIS, IT IS A SIMILAR APPROACH THAT WAS DRAED AT CONTRACTS 391 00:32:08.044 --> 00:32:13.879 WITH DISTRICTS. FOR EXAMPLE, BUS TRANSPORTATION COMPANIES, SAME IDEA WE 392 00:32:13.879 --> 00:32:18.587 ARE GOING TO TREETD THE DISTRICT AS IT'S OPEN AND WE ARE GOING TO PAY FOR YOUR 393 00:32:18.587 --> 00:32:24.968 BUS CONTRACT EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING ANY SERVICE TO US. IT 394 00:32:24.968 --> 00:32:29.917 PRECLUDED THE DISTRICTS FROM REFUSING TO PAY AND PREVENTED DISTRICTS FROM GOING 395 00:32:29.917 --> 00:32:34.153 AFTER AND COLLECTING ANY FUNDS THAT IT MAY HAVE PAID WHEN YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE A 396 00:32:34.153 --> 00:32:36.722 SERVICE. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: SORRY CAN YOU SAY 397 00:32:36.722 --> 00:32:38.425 EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE CITING. RAMON E. RIVERA: I AM LOOKING AT 398 00:32:38.425 --> 00:32:45.298 PARAGRAPH 3 IN THE LAW UNDER E ONE TWO AND THREE. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: 399 00:32:45.298 --> 00:32:49.493 YOU MEAN C? OH NO EFRMENT ONE TWO. RAMON E. RIVERA: AM I OFFER? 400 00:32:49.493 --> 00:32:53.689 I THINK IT IS E 123 I PO WILL JIES IF SCHOOL OR DIFFICULTIES STRIM CLOESHED 401 00:32:53.689 --> 00:32:58.246 FOR A PERDZ LONGER THAN 3 ^ CON ^ CONNECTICUT EK S TIF IS AN DEE CLARDZ THEN THE 402 00:32:58.246 --> 00:33:02.205 DISTRICT SHALL CONTINUE TO MAKE PAYMENTS AND BENEFITS COMPENSATION METHODOLOGY 403 00:33:02.205 --> 00:33:07.252 MEANTS PURNTS TO THE TERMS OF A CONTRACT WITH A CONTRACT SERVICE PROVIDER IN EFFECT 404 00:33:07.252 --> 00:33:10.533 ON THE DATE OF THE CLOESHLG YOU ARE AS IF SERVICES FOR SUCH BENEFITS 405 00:33:10.533 --> 00:33:16.358 COMPENSATION METHODOLOGY MEANTS HADZ BEEN PROVIDED AS IF THE SCHOOL FACILITIES HAD 406 00:33:16.358 --> 00:33:22.594 REMAINED OPEN. THE SAME IDEA THE SAME LANGUAGE DIFFICULTIES RUNGS OF SECTION 407 00:33:22.594 --> 00:33:28.988 ONE WILL INL PACKET ALL OF THESE SECTIONS AND COULD MERCADO TENSIONLY HAVE A MAJOR 408 00:33:28.988 --> 00:33:34.982 EFFECT ON FUNDS THAT HAD BEEN EXCHANGE DZ DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME WHY 409 00:33:34.982 --> 00:33:38.881 I BRING IT UP THERE IS AN CONSISTENT THEME HERE WHICH LENDS ITSELF TO AN UNDERSTANDING 410 00:33:38.881 --> 00:33:44.921 OF THIS LAW THAT THIS WAS TO ADDRESS AND TREAT THE DISTRICT FROM AN EMPLOYMENT 411 00:33:44.921 --> 00:33:50.529 STANDPOINT, FROM A BUSINESS STAND FOINT OF PAYING OUR CONTRACTS AS IF THE SCHOOL 412 00:33:50.529 --> 00:33:55.009 DISTRICT WAS OPEN. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: IS THERE IS THIS 413 00:33:55.009 --> 00:34:01.964 LANGUAGE THAT YOU QUOTED FOR US FROM PARAGRAPH 3 SUBSECTION 3 A FLOOR AND 414 00:34:01.964 --> 00:34:06.664 A CEILING OR JUST A FLOOR? RAMON E. RIVERA: FLOOR AND A KREEG. 415 00:34:06.664 --> 00:34:08.863 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: AND A SEALING. RAMON E. RIVERA: 416 00:34:08.863 --> 00:34:12.909 YOU RECEIVED YOUR I MEAN THE CONTRACT PROVIDED A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR 417 00:34:12.909 --> 00:34:15.551 BUS ROUTES YOU RECEIVED THE FULL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. 418 00:34:15.551 --> 00:34:18.223 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: RIGHT BUT THERE IS NO DPISHL AND THIS IS MY QUESTION IS THERE A 419 00:34:18.223 --> 00:34:22.583 N ADDITIONAL PROVISION THAT SAYS AND YOU'LL GET TIME AND A HALF FOR WHATEVER 420 00:34:22.583 --> 00:34:32.039 PURPOSE AS A BUS PROVIDER? JUSTICE NORIEGA: THAT WOULD BE SIMILAR 421 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:36.191 TO THE CNA PROVISIONS THAT WERE TEELG WITH UNDZ SUBSECTION. 422 00:34:36.191 --> 00:34:38.360 RAMON E. RIVERA: THERE CERTAINLY ARE IN THE BEGINNING WITH RESPECT TO THE SEK 423 00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:41.284 PARTS OF THE QUESTION IF THE BUS COMPANY WERE TO SPROEFR ADDITIONAL WORK 424 00:34:41.284 --> 00:34:44.681 OR SOMETHING ELSE WOULD THEY BE ENTITLE TO ADDITIONAL DPEN SAGS. 425 00:34:44.681 --> 00:34:48.703 JUSTICE NORIEGA: IS THERE A CONTRACT PROVISION BUS DRIVERS THAT SAYS IN THE CASE 426 00:34:48.703 --> 00:34:53.284 OF A SCHOOLING CLOSING OR EMERGENCY YOU WOULD GET TIME AND A HALF IF YOU ARE 427 00:34:53.284 --> 00:34:56.228 WORKING LIKE WE ARE DEALING WITH HERE. RAMON E. RIVERA: NO. I AM 428 00:34:56.228 --> 00:35:00.219 NOT AWARE OF A SPECIFIC PROVISION HERE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE EMPLOYMENT 429 00:35:00.219 --> 00:35:03.393 CONTRACT FOR A BUS CONTRACTOR. MY POINT IN BRINGING THIS UP IS THAT THE DISTRICT 430 00:35:03.393 --> 00:35:08.232 WAS LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PAYMENTS TO SERVICE PROVIDERS WHETHER 431 00:35:08.232 --> 00:35:12.252 IT IS A BUS ENTITY SHS WHETHER IT'S OH A SPECIAL EDZ COMPANY THAT IS PROVING 432 00:35:12.252 --> 00:35:16.865 SERVICES TO KIDS, IN I SERVICE THEY WERE REQUIRED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS 433 00:35:16.865 --> 00:35:19.786 DECEMBER SPITE NOT RECEIVING THOSE SERVICES. CHIEF JUSTICE 434 00:35:19.786 --> 00:35:23.513 RABNER: THAT'S THE FLOOR THAT'S THE PROMISE THAT HAD BEEN MADE. YOU ARE NOW 435 00:35:23.513 --> 00:35:29.632 ARGIROPOULOSING IN SECTION EFRMENT ONE THAT THAT VERY LANGUAGE SFLOLT ONLY 436 00:35:29.632 --> 00:35:34.367 A FLOOR BUT A CEILING AS WELL. RAMON E. RIVERA: YES BECAUSE E ONE 437 00:35:34.367 --> 00:35:38.960 HAD THE SECTION AT THE END THAT PROVIDED ANY ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION WOULD 438 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.336 HAVE TO BE FOR ADDITIONAL WORK PERFORMED. JUSTICE PATTERSON: 439 00:35:41.336 --> 00:35:44.592 I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT ARGUMENT BY YOUR COLLEAGUES 440 00:35:44.592 --> 00:35:50.935 OVER HERE WAS THAT ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION BENEFITS AND METHODOLOGY MENTS MAYBE 441 00:35:50.935 --> 00:35:58.030 NOESHTHED FOR ADDITIONAL WORK PEFRMENTD REFERS BACK TO THE LONG STANG CNA. 442 00:35:58.030 --> 00:36:03.296 IS THAT THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF THE CONTRACT OR IS IT ABOUT LOOKING IF YOU 443 00:36:03.296 --> 00:36:09.171 ARE GOING TO HAVE THE CUSTODIANS DO A RENOVATION THAT'S NEEDED OR DO SOME 444 00:36:09.171 --> 00:36:14.836 EXTRA WORK THAT'S REQUIRED TO BRING THE SCHOOLS BACK UP, WHATEVER IT MAYBE, ADDITIONAL 445 00:36:14.836 --> 00:36:21.638 WORK GOING FORWARD, THERE IS A NOESHGS AND ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION. DO YOU 446 00:36:21.638 --> 00:36:23.905 SEE WHAT I AM SAYING. RAMON E. RIVERA: AND I GROO E WITH IT 447 00:36:23.905 --> 00:36:29.921 BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT MAYBE NOESHTHED SO IT WAS FOR WORK THAT WAS NOT YET PERFORMED 448 00:36:29.921 --> 00:36:33.249 THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF YOUR. JUSTICE PATTERSON: I WAS JUST 449 00:36:33.249 --> 00:36:39.750 WONDERING, THE LANGUAGE SUGGESTS A TIME ELEMENT TO THAT NOT NOT THEY KNOW 450 00:36:39.750 --> 00:36:44.782 HOW TO SAY CERTAINLY THE LEG YOU ARE FLOS HOW TO SAY IF YOU HAVE NOESHTHED IT IT 451 00:36:44.782 --> 00:36:48.915 STAYS IN PLACE OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES THERE ARE A HUNDRED WAYS THEY 452 00:36:48.915 --> 00:36:55.874 COULD HAVE SAID THAT BUT THIS SEEMS TO BE SORT OF GOING FORWARD ISSUES IN TERMS 453 00:36:55.874 --> 00:36:59.377 OF THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED. RAMON E. RIVERA: THAT'S HOW I READ IT 454 00:36:59.377 --> 00:37:05.062 THAT IT WOULD BE FOR FUTURE WORK THAT WAS NOT THAT WAS ADDITIONAL WORK PERFORMED 455 00:37:05.062 --> 00:37:09.997 WOULD COULD BE NOESHTHED TO REQUIRE ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION. 456 00:37:09.997 --> 00:37:13.053 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: DID THE APPELLATE DIVISIONS OPINION OVERLOOK THE REASONABLY 457 00:37:13.053 --> 00:37:18.777 DEBATABLE STANDARD ALTOGETHER? RAMON E. RIVERA: NO. I CERTAINLY 458 00:37:18.777 --> 00:37:22.619 SPENT A LOT OF TIME REVIEWING MY ADVERSARY'S BRIEF AND THAT WAS 459 00:37:22.619 --> 00:37:28.142 REPEATEDLY STATED. I BELIEVE ON PAGE 21 OF THE APPELLATE DIVISION DECISION THEY 460 00:37:28.142 --> 00:37:35.249 DRAED SPECIFICALLY THE ISSUE OF THE REASONABLY DEBATABLE STANDARD. AND MY 461 00:37:35.249 --> 00:37:40.654 RECOLLECTION FROM THE REVIEW OF THAT DECISION WAS THAT THEY QUICKLY DIGS PACHD THAT 462 00:37:40.654 --> 00:37:44.688 IT WAS NOT A REASONABLE BECAUSE IT WAS IN DIRECT CONTRAVENTION OF THE LAW WHICH 463 00:37:44.688 --> 00:37:52.701 I PREEFL ARGUED HERE AND WAS IN DIRECT CONFLICT BASED UPON THE DETERMINATION 464 00:37:52.701 --> 00:37:56.893 THAT THEY WERE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION BECAUSE THE DISTRICT WAS IN FACT CLOSED. 465 00:37:56.893 --> 00:38:00.235 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: THAT IS ALSO ON PAJS 15 AND 16 OF THE 466 00:38:00.235 --> 00:38:03.093 APPELLATE DIVISION DIVISION WHERE THEY SET FORTH THE STARDZ OF RUFR SAN THEY SAY 467 00:38:03.093 --> 00:38:07.096 CORRECTLY IN THE PUBL SECTOR AN ARBITRATOR'S AWARDS L CONFIRM ASZ LONG 468 00:38:07.096 --> 00:38:10.906 AT THE AWARD IS REES BLEEBLG DEBATES ABL THEN THEY GO TLUTS STATUTORY GROUNDS FOR 469 00:38:10.906 --> 00:38:17.271 VACATING UNDER 2 A: 24' A ALL THE WAY TO D CORRECT. RAMON E. 470 00:38:17.271 --> 00:38:20.131 RIVERA: CORRECT. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THAT IS NOT AN 471 00:38:20.131 --> 00:38:24.578 APPLICATION THE APPLICATION IS PAGE 21 RIGHT THAT'S THE BACKGROUND DESCRIPTION. 472 00:38:24.578 --> 00:38:28.614 RAMON E. RIVERA: RIGHT I BELIEVE ON PAGE 21 IF I AM CORRECT 473 00:38:28.614 --> 00:38:34.141 THE IT'S CLEAR MAKES A DETERMINING NATION ON THE APPELLATE DIVISION DRAELS EAST 474 00:38:34.141 --> 00:38:38.340 THE REASONABLY DEBATABLE STANDARD AND FINDS THAT THE ARBITRATOR'S DECISION 475 00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:43.281 WAS NOT RIEBL BLEE DEE BATD ABL BECAUSE AND PRIMARILY IT WAS IN DIRECT CONTRAVENTION 476 00:38:43.281 --> 00:38:46.856 OF THE LAW. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: IT SPIFRM SAYS THE 477 00:38:46.856 --> 00:38:50.430 ARBITRATOR'S DOIRNL NATION OF THE STATUTE IS PEFRNLING CUSTODY YALG EMPLOYEES TO 478 00:38:50.430 --> 00:38:54.123 RECEIVE EXTRA COMPENSATION BECAUSE IT IS SCHOOL FACILITIES WERE CLOSED TO STUDENTS 479 00:38:54.123 --> 00:38:57.042 IS NOT REASONABLY DEBATES ABL. CORRECT. RAMON E. RIVERA: 480 00:38:57.042 --> 00:38:59.419 CORRECT. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: THEN IT ALSO GOES FLOO HOW 481 00:38:59.419 --> 00:39:03.209 IT'S DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THE STATUTE AND IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BE HARM MYSELFED, 482 00:39:03.209 --> 00:39:08.892 ET CETERA. RAMON E. RIVERA: AND I THINK JUST TO BOLSTER 483 00:39:08.892 --> 00:39:16.901 THAT IN THE BEN ET CASE 143 THAN NL 420, ARBITRATOR'S CANNOT BE PEFRMENTED TO 484 00:39:16.901 --> 00:39:20.866 AUTHORIZE LITIGANTS TO VIAL EITHER THE LAW OR THOSE PUBLIC POLICY PRINCIPLES 485 00:39:20.866 --> 00:39:24.962 THAT GOVERNMENT HAS ESTABLISHED BY STATUTE FOR EXAMPLE REGULATION OR OTHERWISE 486 00:39:24.962 --> 00:39:28.794 FOR THE PRO TEKSZ OF THE PUBLIC. I THINK THAT'S WHAT UNDER SCORES THE APPELLATE 487 00:39:28.794 --> 00:39:35.673 DIVISIONS DECISION HERE, IS THAT BY AVRNLING THIS OR UNION COUNTY PUTTING THE INVOICE 488 00:39:35.673 --> 00:39:41.015 BY INVALIDATEING IT THEY ARE PROTECTING THE STAUTSZ AS PASSED BY OUR 489 00:39:41.015 --> 00:39:48.909 LEGISLATURE WINBERRY REALTY CLEAR, REASONABLE AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND. 490 00:39:48.909 --> 00:39:52.712 JUSTICE HOFFMAN: A FACTUAL QUESTION I WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON. RIGHT 491 00:39:52.712 --> 00:40:00.143 NOW WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE PAY? HAS THE I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A MOTION 492 00:40:00.143 --> 00:40:07.923 FOR STAY IN TS ANGS DECISION FILED THAT MOTION WAS DOINDZ. HAS PAY BEEN RETURNED 493 00:40:07.923 --> 00:40:12.539 VIA THE ANGS DECISION? NO. RAMON E. RIVERA: JUSTICE, SO 494 00:40:12.539 --> 00:40:17.325 I AM JUST GOING TOK BACKWARDS AND GIVE YOU A FULL CONTEXT. WE WERE UNDER 495 00:40:17.325 --> 00:40:25.416 KROERDZ BY JUDGEAL PERT TO MAKE A PAYMENT WHICH WE DID AND SO I BELIEVE THERE IS 496 00:40:25.416 --> 00:40:33.523 ABOUT 1.5, 1.75 MILLION THAT HAS BEEN PAID. AND THAT MONEY WE EVER NOT 497 00:40:33.523 --> 00:40:37.900 SOUGHT TO RECOUP OR TAKE ANY ACTION TO RECOUP FROM THE INDIVIDUALS WHO RECEIVED 498 00:40:37.900 --> 00:40:42.631 IT. SO IF MY NUMBERS ARE OFFER I APOLOGIZE WE WILL CORRECT IT BUT WE EVER 499 00:40:42.631 --> 00:40:46.573 MADE A SIGNIFICANT PAYMENT TO A GROUP OF EMPLOYEES UNDER COURT ORDER. 500 00:40:46.573 --> 00:40:48.759 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD I THOUGHT THAT YOU 501 00:40:48.759 --> 00:40:51.584 WERE SEEKING T RECOUNSEL IT YOU ARE NOT SEEK TG RECOUNSEL IT. 502 00:40:51.584 --> 00:40:54.657 RAMON E. RIVERA: NO, I DID THAN SAY WE WN I SAID WE EVER NOT. 503 00:40:54.657 --> 00:40:56.090 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: UNDERSTOOD. RAMON E. RIVERA: I AM NOT CONCEDES 504 00:40:56.090 --> 00:40:59.005 ING ANY IN I SHALL THERE WE EVER NOT AT THIS POINT TAKEN ANY AK TO GARNISH 505 00:40:59.005 --> 00:41:05.690 OR TO BECAUSE OF THE PENDING LEGAL MATTERS THAT ARE BEFORE US. SO THAT MONEY IS 506 00:41:05.690 --> 00:41:11.428 THERE. THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL POTENTIAL DEPENDING ON WHERE THIS GOES FOR 507 00:41:11.428 --> 00:41:17.791 ADDITIONAL PAM TO BE REQUIRED UNDER THIS ORDER JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A DISPUTES 508 00:41:17.791 --> 00:41:22.147 AS TO WHETHER EVERYONE THAT SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIR PAYMENT RECEIVED THEIR 509 00:41:22.147 --> 00:41:28.858 PAYMENT. AND THEN THE FINAL PIECE AFTER THIS THE PARTIES DID MEET AND NOESHTH PROVISIONS 510 00:41:28.858 --> 00:41:33.760 IN THE CONTRACT THAT CHANGED THIS LANGUAGE COMPLETELY. SO THIS SNOTS SOMETHING 511 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:39.903 THAT BASED ON LANGUAGE AND HOPEFULLY NOTHING UNFORESEEN HAPPENS THAT MAY HAPPEN 512 00:41:39.903 --> 00:41:43.538 AGAIN SO IT'S COMMUNITY SUPERVISION FOR LIFE A FINITE ISSUE THAT WE'RE DEALING 513 00:41:43.538 --> 00:41:45.795 WITH HOPEFULLY. JUSTICE PATTERSON: IN OTHER KWORDZ THERE IS 514 00:41:45.795 --> 00:41:49.667 A NEW CNA ISSUE THAT DEALS DW HOW YOU'RE. RAMON E. RIVERA: CORRECT 515 00:41:49.667 --> 00:41:55.undefined WE SUPERVISE SGLIEFRNL SPRAEN SEPARATE THE WEATHER AND PUBLIC HEM WE SEPARATEED 517 00:42:00.425 --> 00:42:02.316 JUSTICE PATTERSON: TWO SEPARATE PROVISIONS APPLY TO THOSE 518 00:42:02.316 --> 00:42:04.186 CONGRESS GEEZ. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: YOU ARE ZOO EK TG RECOVER 519 00:42:04.186 --> 00:42:08.931 THE 1.5 TO 1 FOIJTD 7 MILLION THAT WAS ALREADY PAID. RAMON E. 520 00:42:08.931 --> 00:42:11.379 RIVERA: CORRECT. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: WHY DID THE BOARDS FOR THE 521 00:42:11.379 --> 00:42:17.432 FIRST 4 MONTHS PAY THE 2 AND A HALF TIMES TO CUSTODY YENS MAINTENANCE AND SECURITY? 522 00:42:17.432 --> 00:42:25.626 RAMON E. RIVERA: I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHY JUST AS AN 523 00:42:25.626 --> 00:42:31.827 ASSUME SHUN THEY MAY HAVE JUST BEEN PAYING EVERYONE AS THEY PAID IN THE PAST 524 00:42:31.827 --> 00:42:40.455 RELATED TO INCLEMENT WEATHER AND OTHER SHORT TERM CLOSURES. AND IN LIE MY LINE 525 00:42:40.455 --> 00:42:44.958 OF WORK REPRESENTING NUMEROUS PUBLIC ENTITIES AND SCHOOL TRICKS TRINLT THERE 526 00:42:44.958 --> 00:42:47.585 ARE INTHS STANLTS EAST WHY SPANLTD MAYBE PLAYED THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY CONSISTENT 527 00:42:47.585 --> 00:42:52.097 WITH THE CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS WAYNE WAN THEY WOULD HAFDZ TO PAY IT BEFORE THE 528 00:42:52.097 --> 00:42:54.008 STATUTE WAS PASSIONED IN I STWA RIGHT. RAMON E. RIVERA: BETWEEN MARCH 529 00:42:54.008 --> 00:42:58.317 THIRTEENTH IS KOEFRD BEGINNING FROM MY RECOLLECTION TO APRIL 20TH WOULD HAVE 530 00:42:58.317 --> 00:43:02.457 BEEN PROOIR TO THE LEGISLATURE AN THAN THEN THE LETHD UNCOMES OUT AND DIFFICULTIES 531 00:43:02.457 --> 00:43:06.647 GIST TENG IT UNDERSTANDING THE IMPACT DOES TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME. AND 532 00:43:06.647 --> 00:43:11.556 THE FINAL PIECE JUST KNOW THAT BECAUSE I WAS INVOLVED, WE DID NOT KNOW WHEN SCHOOLS 533 00:43:11.556 --> 00:43:16.810 WERE GOING TO OPEN. IT WAS A WEEK BY WEEK DETERMINATION. SO AT THAT TIME 534 00:43:16.810 --> 00:43:21.338 YOU REALLY IT WAS DIFFICULT TO PREPARE NO ONE NEW THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE OUT 535 00:43:21.338 --> 00:43:26.860 FOR TILL JULY OF 2021 OR JUNE IT WAS ON A WE CAN BY WE CAN BOARD OF EDUCATION IS 536 00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:33.504 THAT YOU WERE PREPARING. SO. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THE STATUTE 537 00:43:33.504 --> 00:43:39.907 WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT THE BOARD VIOLATE PUBLIC POLICY BY MAKING THOSE 538 00:43:39.907 --> 00:43:45.645 PAYMENTS? RAMON E. RIVERA: NO. BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE WAS 539 00:43:45.645 --> 00:43:49.034 A REEB BASIS FOR THE BOARD TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THE PAYMENTS. CHIEF 540 00:43:49.034 --> 00:43:54.109 JUSTICE RABNER: AFTER THE STATUTE WAS ENACTED? RAMON E. 541 00:43:54.109 --> 00:43:58.291 RIVERA: YEAH. GIVEN THAT THIS WAS AN UNBREAST DENTED GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND THE 542 00:43:58.291 --> 00:44:02.911 BOARD HAD NUMEROUS PRIORITIES WHICH INCLUDED FEEDSING CHILDREN. 543 00:44:02.911 --> 00:44:06.161 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: YOUR POSITION TO US TODAY IS THIS STATUTE IS CLEAR 544 00:44:06.161 --> 00:44:14.225 THAT THOSE PAYMENTS ARE INAPPROPRIATE. ARE YOU DOES THAT FLEEN THAT THE BOARD 545 00:44:14.225 --> 00:44:18.965 ACTED IN A WAY CONTRARY TO PUBLIC POLICY? RAMON E. RIVERA: 546 00:44:18.965 --> 00:44:24.377 I BELIEVE A REQUIREMENT THAT WE MUST MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS IS CONTRARY TO LAW AND 547 00:44:24.377 --> 00:44:30.885 ILLEGAL BUT A BOARDS MAKING PAYMENTS BEYOND WHAT'S LEGALLY REQUIRED I DO 548 00:44:30.885 --> 00:44:36.319 NOT BELIEVE VIOLATES PUBLIC POLICY. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: IT 549 00:44:36.319 --> 00:44:39.894 WAS PRETTY SOON THEREAFTER THAT YOU WERE IN LITIGATION OVER IT I ASSUME. 550 00:44:39.894 --> 00:44:41.535 JUSTICE PATTERSON: RAMON E. RIVERA: YEAH. 551 00:44:41.535 --> 00:44:44.682 JUSTICE PATTERSON: I AM TRYING TO REMEMBER THE NUMBER OF 552 00:44:44.682 --> 00:44:47.092 KNOWS THAT WENT BY. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: I THIS I YOU STOPPED 553 00:44:47.092 --> 00:44:51.323 NAKING SPAMTH IN JULY OF DWIFR 2 MONTHS AFTER THE STATUTE OR 3 MONTHS AFTER THE 554 00:44:51.323 --> 00:44:53.939 STATUTE. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: ARE YOU SEEKING REKOUM FOR 555 00:44:53.939 --> 00:44:57.289 THE MONIES PADZ? RAMON E. RIVERA: YES WE WILL BE SEEKING 556 00:44:57.289 --> 00:45:02.728 RECOUNSEL MENT WE WERE WE WILL WE EVER NOT TAKEN ANY ACTION TO BEGAN I SHALL. 557 00:45:02.728 --> 00:45:06.671 JUSTICE NORIEGA: BUT SPIFRL FROM APRIL OR FROM THE TIEJ THE JULY THE 558 00:45:06.671 --> 00:45:11.744 PAYMENTS THAT HAVE NOW BEEN MADE FROM JULY FORWARD OR INCLUDING APRIL AS WELL? 559 00:45:11.744 --> 00:45:17.095 RAMON E. RIVERA: WE WILL DETERMINE THAT BUT AT THIS POINT 560 00:45:17.095 --> 00:45:21.032 WEECH NOT TAKEN AK TO SEEK RECOUNSELOR FORTS PAIN MADZ FROM APRIL TWENT DWRET TO 561 00:45:21.032 --> 00:45:22.679 JULY. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: YOU COULDN'T BASED ON 562 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.946 THE ASH TRAK A WARTD BECAUSE THE A WAR WOS WAS ONLY THAT IF ORDERED YOU WERE TO 563 00:45:26.946 --> 00:45:32.813 MAKE PAJTS FROM JULY OF 2020 UNTIL JULY OF WAS IT GUN OR 2022? BECAUSE THE 564 00:45:32.813 --> 00:45:37.356 PUBLIC HELL EMERGENCY DIDN'T END OR THE STATE OF THE PUBLIC HELL MROINL SEE DIDN'T 565 00:45:37.356 --> 00:45:41.923 END UNTIL JULY OF 22 SO I WASN'T SURE ON WHAT THE END DATE WAS. 566 00:45:41.923 --> 00:45:47.373 RAMON E. RIVERA: I BELIEVE IT WAS JULY OF 21 PAT PALLET SCHOOLS PHYSICALLY REOWN 567 00:45:47.373 --> 00:45:52.101 RIGHT SFLOO I BELIEVE THIS E REOPENED IN THE FALL OF 21. JUSTICE 568 00:45:52.101 --> 00:45:53.479 WAINER APTER: YOU THAT IT THE PAYMENTS HAD NOTHING. RAMON E. 569 00:45:53.479 --> 00:45:57.982 RIVERA: THE PUBLIC HELL E NOIJ SEE THAT THE GOF NARDZ DEE CLARDZ SD STENTD OUT. 570 00:45:57.982 --> 00:46:00.247 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: UNTIL JULY OF 2022. RAMON E. 571 00:46:00.247 --> 00:46:03.509 RIVERA: WE E WERE BACK IN CLASS EGS AT THAT POINTS AND JUST TO GO BACK TO THE 572 00:46:03.509 --> 00:46:08.320 QUESTION, I AGREE THE ISSUE THIS LITIGATION WOULD PREVENT US FROM GOING 573 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:14.359 BACK AND SEEKING THE COMPENSATION FROM APRIL TWENT GRET TO JULY. 574 00:46:14.359 --> 00:46:16.508 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: OF 2020. RAMON E. RIVERA: OF 2020 BUT IF 575 00:46:16.508 --> 00:46:22.990 DEPENDING ON HOUSE THIS RESOLVES THIS NASH MAY THEN REAR ITS HEADS FOR US 576 00:46:22.990 --> 00:46:28.859 TO AN ADDRESS FOR US TOK BACK CLUG THAT WITHIN THE REKOUMENT AMOUNT. 577 00:46:28.859 --> 00:46:32.223 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: SORRY. YOU ARE SAYING THAT 6 YEARS AFTER THE FACT EVEN 578 00:46:32.223 --> 00:46:37.006 THOUGH YOU WERE VOLUNTARILY PAYING THE MONEY FROM APRIL UNTIL JULY OF 2020 579 00:46:37.006 --> 00:46:41.773 YOU COULD GO TO INDIVIDUAL CUSTODY YENS 6 YEARS AFTER THE FAK AND SAY TLANL WE 580 00:46:41.773 --> 00:46:45.514 NEED THAT MONEY BACK THERE WOULD BE NO GROUNDS FOR THAT UNDER THIS LITIGATION 581 00:46:45.514 --> 00:46:47.259 CORRECT. RAMON E. RIVERA: THIS WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE 582 00:46:47.259 --> 00:46:49.898 LITIGATION CORRECT. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: OKAY. 583 00:46:49.898 --> 00:46:54.618 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: WOULD YOU AGREE THERE MAYBE SOME TENSION BETWEEN DECLARING 584 00:46:54.618 --> 00:47:01.651 THAT THE STATUTE WAS CLEAR THAT THESE MONIES ARE NOT TO BE PAID AND YOUR 585 00:47:01.651 --> 00:47:07.786 PAYING THEM NTS ABSENCE OF AN ARBITRATOR'S A BARRED SAYING ANYTHING, IS THERE ANY 586 00:47:07.786 --> 00:47:14.063 TENSION THERE? YOU ARE SAYING THE CNA SHOULD HAVE BEEN SET ASIDE AND YET 587 00:47:14.063 --> 00:47:18.646 YOU HONORED IT. RAMON E. RIVERA: BUT WE HONORED IT BEFORE AND 588 00:47:18.646 --> 00:47:23.546 WE WERE PAYING IT BEFORE THE LEGISLATION WAS PASSED FROM MARCH THIRTEENTH THROUGH 589 00:47:23.546 --> 00:47:27.889 APRIL 20TH. THEN THE LEGISLATION IS PASSED. CHIEF JUSTICE 590 00:47:27.889 --> 00:47:30.788 RABNER: YOU CONTINUED TO PAY TILL JULY 13TH. RAMON E. RIVERA: 591 00:47:30.788 --> 00:47:38.055 WE DID BUT ULTIMATELY BASED UPON NUMEROUS FACTORS WHICH INCLUDED REVIEWING THE 592 00:47:38.055 --> 00:47:42.679 LEGISLATION DECIDED TO STOP PAYING IT IN JULY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PAYMENT OF 593 00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:50.619 SOMETHING UNDERMINES YOUR LET ME ABILITY TO HAVE TO PAY IT, RIGHT. THAT DOESN'T 594 00:47:50.619 --> 00:47:55.452 MEAN THAT IT IS STILL IN VALIDATES WHETHER THE STATUTE WAS CLEAR TORT 595 00:47:55.452 --> 00:47:59.017 ARBITRATOR'S A WAR WAS REASONABLY DEBATABLE WHETHER OR NOT WE PAID IT UNION COUNTY 596 00:47:59.017 --> 00:48:05.633 IN THE MID- THE OF SOMETHING THAT YIET CANNEDLYLY WAS UNPRECEDENTSED WITHIN 597 00:48:05.633 --> 00:48:06.692 OUR SOCIETY. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: HAD THE LEGEND YOU ARE 598 00:48:06.692 --> 00:48:15.124 ENACTED A STATUTE THAT SADZ THIS OVERRIDES CONTRARY PROVISIONS IN EXISTING CNA 599 00:48:15.124 --> 00:48:24.249 S PAIN SHALL NOT BE MADE NORNS WITH THEM, WOUFR PAID THEN? RAMON 600 00:48:24.249 --> 00:48:28.321 E. RIVERA: AS OF APRIL FWENT YET. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: YES. 601 00:48:28.321 --> 00:48:31.445 RAMON E. RIVERA: I MEAN WE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE ENDEAVORED FO COMPLY WITH 602 00:48:31.445 --> 00:48:34.361 THE LAW AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: BUT 603 00:48:34.361 --> 00:48:38.263 IT IS FORM FLORNLAL FOR YOU TO HAVE TO LOOK INTO THE LA THAT WHATS NAKED 604 00:48:38.263 --> 00:48:42.542 DISCUSS WHAT IT NEENGS AND HOW THE CHANGS WHAT YOU HAVE DOB CORRECT 1234. 605 00:48:42.542 --> 00:48:45.232 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: ANYTHING ELSE YOU SKWO LIKE TO ADD. 606 00:48:45.232 --> 00:48:46.727 RAMON E. RIVERA: NO THANK YOU I A PRESHG IT. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: 607 00:48:46.727 --> 00:49:00.888 THANK YOU. MS. RAZHBA. RIMMA RAZHBA: GOOD 608 00:49:00.888 --> 00:49:05.133 AFTERNOON YOUR HONORS MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL JOINS IN 609 00:49:05.133 --> 00:49:10.498 THE ARGUMENTS OF THE BOARDS OF EDUCATION IN THAT THE APPELLATE DIVISION HERE CORRECTLY 610 00:49:10.498 --> 00:49:17.341 DETERMINED THAT THE ARBITRATION AWARD WAS CONTRARY TO THE CLEAR AND UNEQUIVOCAL 611 00:49:17.341 --> 00:49:23.664 LANGUAGE OF THE STATUTE AND IT IS WELL ESTABLISHED THAT ARBITRATION AWARDS SHOULD BE 612 00:49:23.664 --> 00:49:27.703 UNHELL IF THEY ARE REASONABLY DEBATABLE. HERE THE AWARD WAS NOT REASONABLY 613 00:49:27.703 --> 00:49:34.372 DEBATABLE. THE STATUTE PROVIDES THAT IN THE EVENT OF A SCHOOL CLOSURE DUE TO AN 614 00:49:34.372 --> 00:49:38.633 EXTENDED STATE OF NOIJ SEE LONGER THAN 3 DAYS AND I'M MAR PHRASING THAT 615 00:49:38.633 --> 00:49:44.795 EMPLOYEES COVERED BITES CONTRACT SHALL BE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION AS PROVIDED IN 616 00:49:44.795 --> 00:49:50.285 THE AGREEMENT AS IF THE SCHOOLS WERE OPEN. SO THAT SIMPLY MEANS THAT EMPLOYEES 617 00:49:50.285 --> 00:49:55.891 WERE TO BE PAID HOWEVER THEIR AGREEMENT SAID THAT THEY WERE TO BE PAID LOUFR 618 00:49:55.891 --> 00:50:01.844 THE AGREEMENT SAID FO PAY THEM WHEN THE SCHOOLS WERE OPEN. AND THE LANGUAGE AT 619 00:50:01.844 --> 00:50:07.509 THE ENDS OF E ONE IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT IN THAT IT DOES PROVIDE THAT ADDITIONAL 620 00:50:07.509 --> 00:50:14.855 PAY CAN BE NOESHTHED IF THE EMPLOYEES IN THESE EXTENDED CLOSURES ARE DOING 621 00:50:14.855 --> 00:50:20.334 ADDITIONAL WORK. AND THIS PROVISION DOES MAKE THE LANGUAGE EVEN MORE CLEAR. 622 00:50:20.334 --> 00:50:22.605 JUSTICE PATTERSON: CAN I INTEREST RIPT YOU FOR A MOMENT ON THAT I WANT 623 00:50:22.605 --> 00:50:25.346 TO ASK THE SARM QUESTION I HAVE ASKED A COUPLE OF PEOPLE ABOUT THAT, AND 624 00:50:25.346 --> 00:50:29.236 THAT IS DOES THAT MEAN IS IT YOUR IS IT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INTERPRETATION OF THE 625 00:50:29.236 --> 00:50:35.463 STATUTE THAT THAT LAST SENTENCE MEANS GOING FORWARDS THERE CAN BE DISHG 626 00:50:35.463 --> 00:50:39.883 WORK THERE CAN BE NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE PAMTH FOR THAT ADDITIONAL WORK BUT NOT THAT 627 00:50:39.883 --> 00:50:48.788 YOU REVERT BACK TO THE PROVISION OF THE C B A THAT APPLIES IF THE SCHOOLS ARE 628 00:50:48.788 --> 00:50:54.212 CLOSED DO YOU SEE WHAT INL SAYING AS THE TWO POSSIBILITIES. RIMMA 629 00:50:54.212 --> 00:50:58.296 RAZHBA: YOUR HONOR I BELIEVE I BELIEVE THE INTERPRETATION IS THAT I DON'T BELIEVE 630 00:50:58.296 --> 00:51:04.184 THAT THE LANGUAGE NECESSARILY SAYS IN THE FUTURE BUT THAT IF THESE WE BELIEVE 631 00:51:04.184 --> 00:51:09.158 THAT IT MEANS THAT IF THESE LET'S SAY CUSTODIAL EMPLOYEES WERE DOING ADDITIONAL 632 00:51:09.158 --> 00:51:12.930 WORK, SOME COMMUNITY SUPERVISION FOR LIFE ADDITIONAL WORK, THAT THEY COULD 633 00:51:12.930 --> 00:51:17.963 BE PAID FOR THIS ADDITIONAL WORK, THAT THAT COULD BE NEGOTIATED. 634 00:51:17.963 --> 00:51:20.477 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: SO FOR EXAMPLE IF THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT SAID 635 00:51:20.477 --> 00:51:25.168 IN A CASE OF EMERGENCY YOU'RE PAID 2.5 TIMES YOUR REGULAR SALARY AND IN 636 00:51:25.168 --> 00:51:31.804 THE CASE THAT YOU ARE ASKED TO REPANTD THE ENTIRE SCHOOL THEN YOUR PAID 2.5 TIMES YOUR 637 00:51:31.804 --> 00:51:36.441 REGULAR SAILLY REAR IF THEY THER WENT ASKED TO RIE PAINT THE ENTIRE SCHOOL 638 00:51:36.441 --> 00:51:40.715 THEY COULD STILL BE PAID 2.5 TIMES THEIR REGULAR SALARY BECAUSE THAT WHAT THE COLLECTIVE 639 00:51:40.715 --> 00:51:44.353 BARGAINING AGREEMENT HAD PROVIDED FOR ADDITIONAL WORK? RIMMA 640 00:51:44.353 --> 00:51:48.311 RAZHBA: CORRECT CORRECT YOUR HONOR. AND I WANTDED TO POINT OUT THAT IN THE RECORD 641 00:51:48.311 --> 00:51:55.631 HERE I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS EVER ESTABLISHED THAT THE CUSTODY YENS WHO 642 00:51:55.631 --> 00:51:59.087 WERE THE SNL OF THIS GREEFR ANSWER DID PEFRNL ADDITIONAL WORK. I BELIEVE IN FACT 643 00:51:59.087 --> 00:52:03.970 THAT THE RECORD SHOWED THAT THERE WEREN'T CLAIMS OF ADDITIONAL WORK BEING 644 00:52:03.970 --> 00:52:10.530 PERFORMED. SO WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT EMPLOYEES WHO WERE DOING -- WHO WERE DOING 645 00:52:10.530 --> 00:52:15.964 THEIR REGULAR WORK SO MEANING THEY WERE DOING THEIR REGULAR JOB DUTIES. SO 646 00:52:15.964 --> 00:52:21.364 CUSTODY YENS WHO WERE GOING INTO WORK DOING WHATEVER THEIR REGULAR JOB DUTIES WERE 647 00:52:21.364 --> 00:52:28.101 WERE TO BE PAID PER THEIR COLLECTIVE NEGOTIATIONS AGREEMENT SPECIFICALLY HOW 648 00:52:28.101 --> 00:52:33.452 THEIR CONTRACT SAID TO PAY THEM FOR REGULAR WORK SO NO MORE OR LESS. SO IN THAT 649 00:52:33.452 --> 00:52:39.899 RESPECT WE AGREE WITH THE BOARD OF EDUCATION THAT THE STATUTE SETS NOT JUST TO 650 00:52:39.899 --> 00:52:43.807 PAY FORWARD BUT ALSO DOES SET A PAY CEILING SNCHLTH FLOOR ^ ( 00:52:49.041 Space> ^ ) AND THAT LANGUAGE AT THE ENDS OF EFRMENT ONE IS INDICATIVE OF THAT, THAT 652 00:52:49.041 --> 00:52:55.989 THE LEGISLATURE HAS THIS EXCEPTION PERMITTING EXTRA COMPENSATION WHEN 653 00:52:55.989 --> 00:53:01.485 THERE IS ADDITIONAL WORK BEING PERFORMED. SO THE STATUTES INTENT 654 00:53:01.485 --> 00:53:06.724 HERE IS CLEAR THAT SCHOOL DOES INSURE THAT ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES WERE 655 00:53:06.724 --> 00:53:12.436 TO CONTINUE TO BE PAID DURING THIS PANDEMIC BUT IT ALSO LIMITED THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS' 656 00:53:12.436 --> 00:53:21.947 FINANCIAL EXPOSURE. SO ALTHOUGH ARBITRATION WE AGREE IS A FORM OF IS 657 00:53:21.947 --> 00:53:26.308 FAVORED IS A FAFRDZ FORM OF DISPUTE REGULATION IN THIS STATE, AN ARBITRATION AWARD 658 00:53:26.308 --> 00:53:32.106 THAT IS DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THE LAW CANNOT STAND. AND THIS ARBITRATION AWARDS 659 00:53:32.106 --> 00:53:39.602 IS DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THE STATUTE. SO THEREFORE THE AWARD WAS NOT REASONABLY 660 00:53:39.602 --> 00:53:44.841 DEBATABLE. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: COUNSEL WHEN YOU READ THE STATUTE 661 00:53:44.841 --> 00:53:50.379 IT APPEARS THAT YOU COMMITTED SORT OF THE FATAL FLAW THAT YOU'RE POSING COUNSEL 662 00:53:50.379 --> 00:53:56.487 WOULD SAY IN STONG AT THE WORDS OPEN. AND NOT READING FOR ANY PURPOSE AND 663 00:53:56.487 --> 00:54:00.544 FOR ANY TIME LOSS AS A RULE OF SCHOOL CLOESHT ^ YOURS ^ YOURSELF OR USE OF VIRTUAL 664 00:54:00.544 --> 00:54:07.271 OR REMOTE INSTRUCTION. NOW, OPPOSING COUNSEL ARGUES THAT THAT'S A LIMITING 665 00:54:07.271 --> 00:54:15.325 CLAUSE, THAT THAT INDICATES THAT THAT THE STATUTE CAN'T APPLY TO CUSTODIAL EMPLOYEES 666 00:54:15.325 --> 00:54:20.400 BECAUSE CUSTODIAL EMPLOYEES WERE THERE EVERY DAY AND THERE WOULD NEVER BE 667 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:24.914 ANY REASON FOR A STATUTE TO REFERENCE REMOITD WORK FOR THEM. HOW DO YOU RESPOND 668 00:54:24.914 --> 00:54:29.726 TO THAT? RIMMA RAZHBA: THE STATUTE YOUR HONOR DOES NOT THAT 669 00:54:29.726 --> 00:54:35.647 LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE DOES NOT LIMIT THE STATUTE TO JUST VIRTUAL EMPLOYEES. 670 00:54:35.647 --> 00:54:42.729 THE STATUTE DOES COVER ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES COVER THIS PORTION WHO 671 00:54:42.729 --> 00:54:47.411 HAVE A CHECK TIF NEGOTIATIONS AGREEMENT. SO THAT LANGUAGE AND FOR ANY TIME LOST 672 00:54:47.411 --> 00:54:53.109 AS A RULE OF SCHOOLING CLOSURES OR USE OF VIRTUAL OR REMOTE INSTRUCTION WE DON'T 673 00:54:53.109 --> 00:54:57.188 BELIEVE THAT THAT IS LIMITING LANGUAGE. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: IF THAT 674 00:54:57.188 --> 00:55:01.951 IS THE CASE THEN WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT LANGUAGE? RIMMA 675 00:55:01.951 --> 00:55:07.104 RAZHBA: SO I THINK THAT IT HAS TO BE READ WITH THE REST OF THIS SUBSECTION OF THE 676 00:55:07.104 --> 00:55:13.030 STATUTE, WHICH IS THAT THESE PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES SHALL BE PAID AS PROVIDED 677 00:55:13.030 --> 00:55:19.754 IN THE AGREEMENT AS IF THE SCHOOLS ARE OPEN AND FOR ANY TIME LOST AS A RULE OF 678 00:55:19.754 --> 00:55:25.983 SCHOOL CLOSURE THAT THAT COULD BE GOING BACK TO ANY TIME THAT THEY LOST 679 00:55:25.983 --> 00:55:34.202 WHEN THE SCHOOLS WERE PREEFL CLOSED. I DON'T SEE THAT LANGUAGE AS CHANGING THE 680 00:55:34.202 --> 00:55:40.306 OVER ALL STATUTE WHICH IS THAT THE EMPLOYEES ARE TO BE PAID, ALL THE 681 00:55:40.306 --> 00:55:46.848 PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES ARE TO BE PAID BUT THEY ARE TO BE PAID EXACTLY HOW THEIR 682 00:55:46.848 --> 00:55:51.381 CONTRACTS SAY THAT THEY ARE TO BE PAID AS IF THE SCHOOLS ARE OPEN AND NOT 683 00:55:51.381 --> 00:55:58.136 CLOSED. JUSTICE PATTERSON: SO WHAT IS THE TIME LOST? WAIVER 684 00:55:58.136 --> 00:56:01.557 WAY IS THAT BECAUSE IT WASN'T OTHERWISE RE AK I HAVE WHEN THE STATUTE WAS SFAGS 685 00:56:01.557 --> 00:56:04.571 DZ ON APRIL 20TH WAS THERE RECEIPTS AK I HAVE BA CAN TO MARCH THIRT TEENLTS 686 00:56:04.571 --> 00:56:08.576 SO THERE WAS NO TIME LOST OR WAS IT NOT RETROACTIVE BACK TO MARCH THIRT TEENTS 687 00:56:08.576 --> 00:56:12.305 SUCH THAT THIS COULD BE REFERRING TO THE 1 MONTH THAT HADZ ALREADY BEEN 688 00:56:12.305 --> 00:56:15.926 LOST. RIMMA RAZHBA: THAT'S CORRECT YOUR HONOR. I BELIEVE 689 00:56:15.926 --> 00:56:21.390 THAT THE STATUTE WAS NOT RETROACTIVE. SO THIS WOULD BE REFERRING TO THE TIME LOST. 690 00:56:21.390 --> 00:56:24.063 JUSTICE PATTERSON: IS A LIMDED ET RECEIPT ABLTH IFRT PROVISION 691 00:56:24.063 --> 00:56:29.695 IN OTHER WORDS SAYING IT'S FROM HERE ON IN ON APRIL 20TH BUT WE KNOW PEOPLE HAVE 692 00:56:29.695 --> 00:56:33.612 ALREADY LOST TIME IS THAT HOW YOU INTERPRET IT. RIMMA 693 00:56:33.612 --> 00:56:39.470 RAZHBA: YES, YOUR HONOR. BECAUSE IT SAYS AS IF THE SCHOOL FACILITIES REMAIN OWN 694 00:56:39.470 --> 00:56:43.730 AND FOR ANY TIME LOST. SO THAT WOULD BE FOR ANY TIME THAT WAS LOST PRIOR 695 00:56:43.730 --> 00:56:51.084 TO THE PASSING OF THE STATUTE. BUT IT DOESN'T -- THAT LANGUAGE DOES NOT CHANGE 696 00:56:51.084 --> 00:56:58.565 THE INTENT OF THE STAULT, WHICH IS THAT EMPLOYEES WERE TO BE PAID AS IF 697 00:56:58.565 --> 00:57:03.614 THE SCHOOLS WERE OPEN. LOVER WHO HAVE IF THAT LANGUAGE DID NOT EXIST, HOW WOULD 698 00:57:03.614 --> 00:57:08.861 THE STATUTE BE DIFFERENT SUB STANT TIFL? RIMMA RAZHBA: I 699 00:57:08.861 --> 00:57:15.524 DON'T I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STATUTE WOULD BE DIFFERENT. I ANY THAT I THINK THAT 700 00:57:15.524 --> 00:57:21.921 THE LANGUAGE OVER ALL JUST SAYS THE INTENT IS THAT THESE ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES 701 00:57:21.921 --> 00:57:27.203 WHO ARE COVERED BY AN AGREEMENT WERE TO BE PAID AS IF THE SCHOOL FACILITIES 702 00:57:27.203 --> 00:57:33.308 REMANDZ OPEN FOR ANY PURPOSE. AND THEN FOR ANY AND FOR ANY TIME LOST WOULD BE 703 00:57:33.308 --> 00:57:38.338 WHATEVER TIME THEY HAD LOST BUT THEN IMMEDIATELY IT GOES INTO EXCEPT THAT 704 00:57:38.338 --> 00:57:42.564 ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION MAYBE NEGOTIATED FOR DISH WORK. AND THAT ALLOWS 705 00:57:42.564 --> 00:57:49.296 ANYBODY LIKE A CUSTODIAN WHO HAD TO GO IN DURING THIS TIME AN EXTENDED CLOSURE 706 00:57:49.296 --> 00:57:54.728 TO DO ADDITIONAL WORK BEYOND THEIR REGULAR WORK THOSE INDIVIDUALS COULD THEN GET 707 00:57:54.728 --> 00:57:58.769 ADDITIONAL PAY IF THAT WAS NECESSITY GOESHGED. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: 708 00:57:58.769 --> 00:58:01.860 IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE SAYING IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE IF THAT LANGUAGE WAS 709 00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:09.094 NOT THERE, IT MAY NOT CAPTURE PAY FOR THAT MONTH PERIOD BETWEEN MARCH AND APRIL 710 00:58:09.094 --> 00:58:17.486 IN WHICH SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED BUT THEY HAD NOT BEEN ENACTED YET. IS THAT SO IT 711 00:58:17.486 --> 00:58:23.461 SEEMGS TO ME YOU ARE SAYING THAT THAT LANGUAGE DOES SERVE A PURPOSE. OR AM I MISS 712 00:58:23.461 --> 00:58:25.287 UNDERSTANDING. RIMMA RAZHBA: THE ONLY PURPOSE THAT I UNDERSTAND 713 00:58:25.287 --> 00:58:35.065 THAT LANGUAGE YOUR HONOR IS THAT THE AND THERE SO THERE BEING PAID AS IF THE SCHOOLS 714 00:58:35.065 --> 00:58:41.237 ARE OPEN FOR ANY PURPOSE AND FOR ANY TIME LOST AS A RESULT OF SCHOOL CLOSURES. 715 00:58:41.237 --> 00:58:49.566 SO TO ME THAT AND IS GOING BACK TO THE TIME THAT THE SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED PRIOR 716 00:58:49.566 --> 00:58:54.362 TO THE STATUTE WHICH SAYS THAT THE SDOOLS V SCHOOLS ARE BASICALLY OPEN FOR 717 00:58:54.362 --> 00:58:57.688 PURPOSES OF THE STATUTE. JUSTICE PATTERSON: ABOUT 2 MONTHS AM I 718 00:58:57.688 --> 00:59:00.640 RIGHT ABOUT THE CHRONOLOGY. RIMMA RAZHBA: I THINK IT WAS 719 00:59:00.640 --> 00:59:02.874 ABOUT A MONTH YOUR HONOR PALLET PAT A MONTH. RIMMA RAZHBA: 720 00:59:02.874 --> 00:59:05.001 YES. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: COUNSEL YOUR FELLOW COUNSEL MR. 721 00:59:05.001 --> 00:59:10.551 RIVERA ARGUED THAT THE LEGISLATURE'S CHANGE IN HEALTH CARE PLANS WAS AN EXAMPLE 722 00:59:10.551 --> 00:59:14.648 WE MIGHT LOOK TO. HOW DID THE LEGEND YOU ARE DO THAT WHAT LANGUAGE DID IT USE 723 00:59:14.648 --> 00:59:18.727 THEN IF YOU CAN TELL US? RIMMA RAZHBA: I DON'T ALSO DON'T HAVE 724 00:59:18.727 --> 00:59:24.033 SNA IN FRONT OF ME UNLESS I DON'T -- ARE WE REFERRING TO THE EAST RUTHERFORD 725 00:59:24.033 --> 00:59:30.052 CASE? OTHERWISE I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE SPIFRL WHAT CASE COUNSEL IS REFERRING TO. 726 00:59:30.052 --> 00:59:35.052 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: PLEASE GO AHEAD. RIMMA 727 00:59:35.052 --> 00:59:36.892 RAZHBA: THAT WHAT IS THAT. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: PLEASE CONTINUE 728 00:59:36.892 --> 00:59:41.469 WITH YOUR ARGUMENT. RIMMA RAZHBA: AND AGAIN, WE JUST OUR 729 00:59:41.469 --> 00:59:47.061 ARGUMENTS WE JUST JOIN IN THE ARGUMENTS OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION THAT WHERE 730 00:59:47.061 --> 00:59:53.601 THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SNOLT WE'RE NOT ARGIROPOULOSING FOR A DIFFERENT HIRE 731 00:59:53.601 --> 00:59:57.543 DIFFERENCE OR A CHANGE IN THE STANDARD, WE AGREE THAT THE STANDARD IS THE 732 00:59:57.543 --> 01:00:02.147 A WARD MUST BE REASONABLY REASONABLY DEBATABLE AND WE BELIEVE THAT THE STATUTE 733 01:00:02.147 --> 01:00:11.423 HERE IS SO CLEAR THAT THE AWARDS IS DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THAT STATUTE PATS PAT 734 01:00:11.423 --> 01:00:14.812 QUICK QUESTION DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE BREADTH OF THE IMPACT OF THIS 735 01:00:14.812 --> 01:00:17.838 DAYS ON OTHER CASES. RIMMA RAZHBA: I DON'T EITHER YOUR HONOR 736 01:00:17.838 --> 01:00:28.862 BECAUSE WE DON'T UNION COUNTY RENT THE SCHOOL BOARD SO I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW. 737 01:00:28.862 --> 01:00:30.533 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD COUNSEL. 738 01:00:30.533 --> 01:00:32.477 RIMMA RAZHBA: I HAVE NOTHING ADDITIONAL YOUR HONOR. CHIEF 739 01:00:32.477 --> 01:00:34.485 JUSTICE RABNER: THANK YOU. RIMMA RAZHBA: THANK YOU. 740 01:00:34.485 --> 01:00:38.201 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: YOU DID NOT RESERVE TIME FOR REBUT IT ISAL IF I KRUL CONTRACTUAL 741 01:00:38.201 --> 01:00:42.555 REEKLY ISHTHS FIEFR MINUTES I PROMISE I WILL SPEAK COMBRIK QUICKLY THAT 742 01:00:42.555 --> 01:00:45.335 COMES NATURALLY. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: FIVE NINS ON THE 743 01:00:45.335 --> 01:00:47.964 CLOCK. SANFORD R. OXFELD: SO FIRST OF ALL IN RESPONSE TO I 744 01:00:47.964 --> 01:00:54.138 THINK A QUESTION FWR JUSTICE PATTERSON, YOU ASKED MR. RIVERA WHAT OTHER PEOPLE 745 01:00:54.138 --> 01:00:58.470 GOT PAID UNDER THE STATUTE AND YOU RESPONDED TWO DAT GRIS COACHES AND BUS 746 01:00:58.470 --> 01:01:03.981 DRIVERS. THAT IS EXACTLY MY INTERPRETATION. THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT COME 747 01:01:03.981 --> 01:01:08.699 TO WORK IN PERSON. THERE WERE NO BASEBALL GAMGS, COACHES COULD NOT COME TO WORK 748 01:01:08.699 --> 01:01:11.760 IN PERSON THERE ARE NO STUDENTS TO DRIVE BUSES CONSTITUTIONAL BE DRIVEN. 749 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:17.217 THE STAULT CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATES TWAEN THOSE WHO HAD TO WORK REMOTELY AND 750 01:01:17.217 --> 01:01:21.541 THOSE WHO HAD TO GO TO WORK. AND MR. RIVERA'S ANSWER SUPPORTED MY POSITION. THE 751 01:01:21.541 --> 01:01:29.822 TWO EXAMPLES HE GAVE YOUER WERE PEOPLE COULD NOT GO TO WORK. I 752 01:01:29.822 --> 01:01:36.339 ANSWERED ONE OF JUSTICE WAP NERS QUESTIONS INCORRECTLY INITIALLY THE CONTRACT SAYS 753 01:01:36.339 --> 01:01:40.721 WHEN SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED BY ORDER OF THE GOVERNOR. SCHOOLS HAD TO BE CLOSED. 754 01:01:40.721 --> 01:01:46.033 SO WHEN SKWOOLS REOPENED, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS STILL A STATE OF EMERGENCY, WUNTS 755 01:01:46.033 --> 01:01:50.798 THEY REOWNED THE OBJECT GA IGS TO PAY ENDED UNDER THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE. 756 01:01:50.798 --> 01:01:53.486 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: THAT IS WHY IT EVENTED IN JULT OF 2021 757 01:01:53.486 --> 01:01:56.691 EVEN THOUGH THE HEALTH FLOINL SEE WENT ON UNTIL MAUVENL OF 2022. 758 01:01:56.691 --> 01:01:59.375 RAMON E. RIVERA: THE STATUTE WAS PASSIONED IN APRIL SO APRIL TO MAY TO JUNE TO 759 01:01:59.375 --> 01:02:01.666 JULY SO P MONTHS. SANFORD R. OXFELD: THAT THE BOARDS 760 01:02:01.666 --> 01:02:05.794 CONTINUED TO PAY AFTER THE STATUTE WAS ENACTED. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S 761 01:02:05.794 --> 01:02:12.616 POSITION IS AR GANTT AND IS ^ CON ^ CONNECTICUT DEE SEENDING. THE ATTORNEY 762 01:02:12.616 --> 01:02:15.458 GENERAL'S BASICALLY SAYING. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: I ASK THAT. 763 01:02:15.458 --> 01:02:17.424 SANFORD R. OXFELD: I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ATTORNEY OF GENERAL OF OUR 764 01:02:17.424 --> 01:02:22.713 STATE IFRM COUNSEL IT'S LRG THE LEGALITY ISSUES HERE AND LEAVE THE ATTACK LANGUAGE 765 01:02:22.713 --> 01:02:24.748 OUT. SANFORD R. OXFELD: FIRST MUCH ALL TLOULT THE 766 01:02:24.748 --> 01:02:30.260 ATTORNEY JENS BRIEF PAGES 1, 2, 3, 4, CITES THE STATUTE NO AND THE XAK SAME PROBLEM 767 01:02:30.260 --> 01:02:34.054 THAT THE APPELLATE DIVISION HAD WHEN THEY REFERRED TO THE STATUTE ON PAGES ONE 768 01:02:34.054 --> 01:02:36.877 TWO THREE FOUR OF ITS BRIEF. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: YOU HAVE NEVER 769 01:02:36.877 --> 01:02:42.189 MADE THAT PRECISE ASHGD YOU KEEP SAYING THAT EVERYONE HAS GOTTEN THIS WRONG 770 01:02:42.189 --> 01:02:47.228 BECAUSE THEY'RE IGNORING THE MOST CRUCIAL LANGUAGE. HAD YOU ARGUED THAT THESE 771 01:02:47.228 --> 01:02:51.600 FEW WORDS THAT YOU ARE ARGIROPOULOSING BEFORE US WERE THE MOST CRUCIAL 772 01:02:51.600 --> 01:02:55.024 LANGUAGE BEFORE THE ARBITRATOR SHTHS BEFORE THE CHANNELS RECOURT AND BEFORE THE 773 01:02:55.024 --> 01:02:56.574 APPELLATE DIVISION. RIMMA RAZHBA: SANFORD R. 774 01:02:56.574 --> 01:02:58.957 OXFELD: THE APPELLATE DIVISION WAS THE MAIN ARGIROPOULOS THIS DO NOT APPLY TO 775 01:02:58.957 --> 01:03:00.773 CUSTODIAL WORKERS BECAUSE OF THAT LANGUAGE. JUSTICE WAINER 776 01:03:00.773 --> 01:03:02.647 APTER: BECAUSE OF THESE SPECIFIC WORDS. SANFORD R. OXFELD: 777 01:03:02.647 --> 01:03:06.400 YES I MEAN THAT'S WHY I THINK IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT THE APPELLATE DIVISION 778 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:10.097 READS THE STATUTE PERIOD END QUOTE BEFORE THE WORD AND IS THERE. 779 01:03:10.097 --> 01:03:14.846 JUSTICE PATTERSON: THE STATUTE IS NOT HIDDEN A WAY IN A SAFE SOMEWHERE, IT'S PUBLIC 780 01:03:14.846 --> 01:03:19.389 RECORDS. EVERYONE HAS IT EVERYONE HAS READ THE ENTIRETY OF IT. I DON'T 781 01:03:19.389 --> 01:03:24.096 THINK WE HAVE ANY SITUATION WHERE A PORTION OF THE STATUTE IS SOMEHOW BEEN KEPT 782 01:03:24.096 --> 01:03:26.985 A SECRET FROM ANY OF THE JUDGES. SANFORD R. OXFELD: I MAINTAIN 783 01:03:26.985 --> 01:03:33.108 THAT THE DICHOTOMY THAT IS SET UP BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS LICENSE 784 01:03:33.108 --> 01:03:38.056 A REVERSE ROBIN HOOD 245 WE'RE NOT GOING TO PAY PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO ROORT TO WORK 785 01:03:38.056 --> 01:03:42.056 WHO ARE THE POOR EAST PAID PEJ IN THE DISTRICT SO THAT WE CAN AFFORD TO 786 01:03:42.056 --> 01:03:46.300 PAY THE TEACHERS ICHL THE KNOW SAYING TEACHERS ARE OVER PAID, BUT YOU ARE TALKING 787 01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:51.841 ABOUT BEM WHO WERE MASHGING BARELY A LIVING WAGE HAVING TO GO TO WORK USUAL 788 01:03:51.841 --> 01:03:55.426 TALKING ABOUT CUSTODIAL WORKERS. JUSTICE HOFFMAN: I THINK WHAT JUSTICE 789 01:03:55.426 --> 01:03:58.140 PENNSYLVANIA THE SON WAS ARGIROPOULOSING IF THIS WAS SO KRIGS TAL CLEAR, 790 01:03:58.140 --> 01:04:03.287 WHY DIDN'T YOU ARGIROPOULOS IT BEFORE THE CHANCERY COURT I THINK WHAT JUSTICE PATTERSON 791 01:04:03.287 --> 01:04:07.549 WAS SAYING WAS IF THIS WAS SO CRYSTAL CLEAR, WHY DIDN'T YOU ARGIROPOULOS 792 01:04:07.549 --> 01:04:11.062 THIS BEFORE THE CHANCERY COURT. SANFORD R. OXFELD: BEFORE THE. 793 01:04:11.062 --> 01:04:13.443 JUSTICE HOFFMAN: BEFORE THE TRIAL COURT, I ARGUED THE APPELLATE 794 01:04:13.443 --> 01:04:16.116 DIVISION WHOEVER WHO HAVE WHY DIDN'T YOU ARGIROPOULOS IT BEFORE THE TRIAL COURT, 795 01:04:16.116 --> 01:04:22.397 I ASHG IT BEFORE THE ARBITRATE OSH AND I ALSO ARGUED THE PREEMPTION DONTH 796 01:04:22.397 --> 01:04:26.807 THE ASHLG TROT A #2K0789ED THE PREEMPTION ARGUMENT IT DOESN'T MEAN I DIDN'T MAKE 797 01:04:26.807 --> 01:04:30.125 ARGIROPOULOS HE SAYS ILTS A FLOOR NOT A CEILING THAT BAS REPLY ARTHD ON 798 01:04:30.125 --> 01:04:35.261 THE PRUNL DOCTRINE. AND JUSTICE PATTERSON THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT IS VERY FAST 799 01:04:35.261 --> 01:04:39.974 NATING TO ME IGNORING THE PAINTS BAURL CASE WHICH THE REVIEW OF THE AWARD 800 01:04:39.974 --> 01:04:45.528 WHAT HANS IF THE ARBITRATOR CAME TO THE RIGHT CONCLUSION? YOU THINK FOR THE WRONG 801 01:04:45.528 --> 01:04:48.861 REASONS? CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: COUNSEL YOU HAVE 2 MINUTES 802 01:04:48.861 --> 01:04:52.859 AND I WOULD SERGEANT YOU MAKE YOUR POINTS YOU WANT TO MAKE. JUSTICE 803 01:04:52.859 --> 01:04:55.651 NORIEGA: COUNSEL I DO HAVE A QUICK QUESTION DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE PREMISE 804 01:04:55.651 --> 01:04:59.678 THAT THE LANGUAGE AFTER THE AND FOR ANY TIME LOST AS A RULE OF SCHOOL CLOSURES 805 01:04:59.678 --> 01:05:04.842 COULD REFER TO THE TIME BETWEEN MARCH THIRTEENTH AND THE TIME THAT THE STATUTE 806 01:05:04.842 --> 01:05:07.594 WAS PASSED IN APRIL. SANFORD R. OXFELD: NO I DISAGREE WITH 807 01:05:07.594 --> 01:05:11.660 THAT. IT APPLIES FOR ANY TIME BEFORE AND AFTER THE STATUTE THERE IS NO 808 01:05:11.660 --> 01:05:16.730 LIMITATION IN THE STATUTE SUGGESTING THAT INTERPRETATION WHATSOEVER. 809 01:05:16.730 --> 01:05:19.408 JUSTICE NORIEGA: THE SCHOOL CLOSURES STARTED 0 THAN NAUFRP THIRT TEENTS INL 810 01:05:19.408 --> 01:05:22.693 ASSUMING THAT THE POINT NO ONE WENT TO WORK INCLUDING CUSTODIAL OR TEACHERS 811 01:05:22.693 --> 01:05:25.963 AT THE BEGINNING AT LEAST AND THEN. SANFORD R. OXFELD: THAT MAYBE 812 01:05:25.963 --> 01:05:29.182 AN ASSUME SHUN INL KNOW THE SLUR IT IS IN THE RECORD. JUSTICE 813 01:05:29.182 --> 01:05:32.049 NORIEGA: I AM ASSUMING THAT BUT INL ASSUMING WHEN THEY WERE FLIGSLY CLEESED NO 814 01:05:32.049 --> 01:05:35.859 ONE NEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING THAT ON MARCH THIRTEENTH AND THE FOLLOWING WE CAN 815 01:05:35.859 --> 01:05:38.533 THAT NOBODY WENT TO WORK FOR AT LEAST A KUMENT OF DAYS. SANFORD 816 01:05:38.533 --> 01:05:40.974 R. OXFELD: MAYBE A KUNL OF DAYS. JUSTICE NORIEGA: SO ISN'T THAT 817 01:05:40.974 --> 01:05:47.003 LANGUAGE COVER ANY LOSS FROM RESULTING FROM SCHOOL CLOSURES ANY TIME LOST? 818 01:05:47.003 --> 01:05:53.160 INCLUDING CUSTODIAL WORKERS. SANFORD R. OXFELD: NO BECAUSE MAYBE 819 01:05:53.160 --> 01:05:59.277 CUSTODIAL WORKERS FOR THAT THREE-DAY PERIOD WHEN THEY LOST TIME FLOR NOR 820 01:05:59.277 --> 01:06:02.624 BUT TLER IN THE STATUTE AND THEY ARE COVERED SO ALL LANGUAGE APPLIES. 821 01:06:02.624 --> 01:06:04.960 SANFORD R. OXFELD: BECAUSE AFTER THAT PERIOD OF TIEMENT THE STATUTE STILL 822 01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:10.087 SAYS AND WORKING REMOTELY AND THEY WERE NOT WORK CAN REMOTELY. 823 01:06:10.087 --> 01:06:11.853 JUSTICE NORIEGA: OR THE YOOFR VIRTUAL. SANFORD R. OXFELD: OR THE 824 01:06:11.853 --> 01:06:14.996 UNIVERSITY VIRTUAL EITHER ONE WORKING REMOTELY OR VISHL. 825 01:06:14.996 --> 01:06:18.596 JUSTICE WAINER APTER: DID THE STATUTE OTHERWISE SAY THAT IT WAS RETROACTIVE TO 826 01:06:18.596 --> 01:06:23.962 THE DATE THAT THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY WAS FIRST DEGREE CLARD? 827 01:06:23.962 --> 01:06:25.872 SANFORD R. OXFELD: I DON'T BELIEVE SO. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: SO 828 01:06:25.872 --> 01:06:30.362 THEN OTHERWISE IN THEORY FOR ANYONE WHO DID NOT WORK FOR A MONTH AFTER THE 829 01:06:30.362 --> 01:06:37.204 SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED BEFORE THIS LEGISLATION WAS PATSED COULDN'T THE LANGUAGE ABOUT 830 01:06:37.204 --> 01:06:44.236 TIME LOST THAT JUSTICE NOR RAG GLA WAS JUST READING REFER TO THAT 1 MONTH 831 01:06:44.236 --> 01:06:46.333 PERIOD? SANFORD R. OXFELD: FIRST OF ALL TALKING ABOUT 3 DAYS 832 01:06:46.333 --> 01:06:51.155 NOT A MONTH IN EAST OFRNG THE CUSTODY YENS WENT TO WORK VIRTUALLY NONE STOP. AND 833 01:06:51.155 --> 01:06:54.166 THAT WAS THE BOARD OF EDUCATIONS DECISION. JUSTICE WAINER APTER: 834 01:06:54.166 --> 01:06:57.127 NO. SANFORD R. OXFELD: IT MAY APPLY TO THAT BUT IT DOESN'T 835 01:06:57.127 --> 01:07:00.906 APPLY TO THAT ONLY THE FOLLOW UP POINT IOWA THAN THO MAKE IS UNDER THE ARGUMENT 836 01:07:00.906 --> 01:07:05.145 POSITION OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE BOARD OF EDUCATION THERE IS ABSOLUTELY 837 01:07:05.145 --> 01:07:08.349 NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE WHO ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT FOR WORK AND THOSE WHO 838 01:07:08.349 --> 01:07:13.373 DID NOT REPORT FOR WORK AND THAT JUST DEFIES COMMON SENSE DURING A PERIOD 839 01:07:13.373 --> 01:07:17.913 OF KOEFT WHEN PEOPLE HAD TO REPORT FOR WORK IN PERSON THEY ARE GOING TOK TREAT 840 01:07:17.913 --> 01:07:22.852 THE AS SAME IF AS SF THEY DID NOT RORTD FOR WORK AT ALL IT IS JUST NOT FOUND 841 01:07:22.852 --> 01:07:25.821 IN THE STATUTE ANTE FILES DMON SENSE. CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THANK YOU 842 01:07:25.821 --> 01:07:31.576 COUNSEL. A. I CAN ADDRESS COMPLAPT 28 IF YOU TWANT TO SAY WHAT IT SAYS. 843 01:07:31.576 --> 01:07:39.592 VRNLTS I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME FROM EVEN MEAN REI THINK IT'S PRETTY GOOD 844 01:07:39.592 --> 01:07:43.081 ONE THING IT DID IS IT SAID IT DOESN'T APPLY TO CONTRACTS IT WOULD THAN 845 01:07:43.081 --> 01:07:48.530 AN I REPLY UNTIL A CONTRACT EXPIRED SO IF THERE WAS A CONTRACT IN EFFECT I'M 99 846 01:07:48.530 --> 01:07:50.416 PUBLIC EMPLOYMENT RETIREMENT SYSTEM SHUSH IT WOULD NOT EFFECT THAT. AFTER 847 01:07:50.416 --> 01:07:55.617 THAT IT WOULD BE FACED IN IN VARIOUS AMOUNTS BUT THOSE AMOUNTS WERE MANDATORY YOU 848 01:07:55.617 --> 01:07:59.114 ^ CON ^ CONNECTICUT NECESSITY GOESHG SOMETHING ELSE YOU'D HAVE TO CRIB A 849 01:07:59.114 --> 01:08:04.161 CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF PREMIUM I THINK PERSONAL OF SALARY AND THEN AFTER A FEW YEARS 850 01:08:04.161 --> 01:08:09.240 IT MIGHT GO UM THEN IT WOULD REACH ITS MAXIMUM AFTER WHICH YOU COULD 851 01:08:09.240 --> 01:08:13.155 NECESSITY GOESHG IT DOWN. SFWU THAT'S THE WAY CHAPTER 78 WAS STRUCTURED. 852 01:08:13.155 --> 01:08:15.837 CHIEF JUSTICE RABNER: THANK YOU. THANK YOU TO ALL COUNSEL FOR THE ARGUMENT 853 01:08:15.837 --> 01:08:18.837 WE WILL TAKE THE MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT.